Healthy carbs?

Tyll

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Hello everyone,

I've read some threads already and therefore want to stop eating pasta (what I did way too much). At the moment I have quinoa with beans and broccoli (trying to implement the daily dozen) with a variable salad / vegetable part for dinner.

I'm doing fine with quinoa, my question now would be, whether quinoa is healthy or better should be avoided. In some threads I've read about rice, but I don't know which one to buy, since there is a high amount of heavy metal (is this the right term? It does not sound right :eyes: - I mean lead and stuff like that) in many brands.

Long story short: are there any better options for quinoa (and speaking of carbs: whole grain oatmeal) or are they fine?

Thank you very much in advance!
 

Lou

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Personally I think carbs and grains have gotten a bad reputation. They really need a better public relations director.

Carbs are good. Grains are good. But in moderation.

Both Fuhrman and Gregar recommend only 3 servings of grains a day. Furhman even limits it to 1 or 2 if you are trying to lose weight.

The thing is a lot of us eat more than 3 every day. A bagel sandwich for breakfast is two. Then a sandwich for lunch is another two. Rice of pasta for dinner is another one. And if you have some cookies or corn chips you are then up to 6. But its easy to get back down to 3. Oatmeal for breakfast is just one. a veggie wrap or salad for lunch is one more. then you still have room for pasta or rice for dinner.

Whole grains are much better than refined grains. Oatmeal is a whole grain. you can buy whole wheat bread or tortillas or pasta. I don't know if they do it in Germany, but here in America they have a "whole grain stamp". The higher the number the better. If not you can check the ingredients. but be aware that some companies are deceptive. They may list whole grain wheat as the first ingredient and wheat flour as the second. Here in America the product may only be 51% whole grain. You can also check the number of grams of fiber on the package. This makes a way of comparing two products.

Although quinoa is technically (botanically) a seed. Nutrition-wise its still considered a grain. And should be counted a a grain. It does have more protein and fiber than rice so it is a healthier choice. Its also sort of expensive.

Of course brown rice is better than white rice. But you are correct to worry about heavy metals. The arsenic levels of rice is very high. There are some things you can do to limit the arsenic levels.

We have discussed arsenic in rice in several places in this forum. this thread may have the best info.

 
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poivron

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You do not need to avoid carbs. If you try to avoid carbs, you will end up being hungry all the time, and you will not last long as a vegan. Carbs should make up the majority of what you eat.

There are lots of fad diets out there, and a lot of misinformation, especially in the non-vegan world where people are trying to vilify anything and everything but animal products. You need to make sure you're getting information from trustworthy sources. I suggest you read "The Starch Solution" by Dr. John McDougall. Or listen to the Exam Room podcast produced by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine on a regular basis. I've learned a great deal about healthy eating by doing just that.

You only need to avoid gluten if you are among the 1% of the population that has Celiac disease. Assuming you do not have Celiac disease, I suggest you just focus on eating enough fiber. What that means is avoiding refined grains, such as white pasta, white bread, and white rice, which all have almost no fiber. At first, whole-wheat pasta, whole-wheat bread, and brown rice will taste bland; but after just 10 days or so your taste buds will adjust. Similarly, you should avoid oils, which contain no fiber and are the densest source of calories. If you avoid oils and don't overdose on other high-fat vegan foods (such as nuts, avocados, coconut milk, vegan chocolate, and most vegan "cheeses" and "meats"), you can eat starches all day long, and you will still not gain weight or otherwise damage your health.

Some rice has a high amount of arsenic in it, but I wouldn't worry too much about that. Try to buy brown rice that was grown in California, rinse it a few times before you cook it, and you will be fine.
 
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Lou

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Try to buy brown rice that was grown in California, rinse it a few times before you cook it, and you will be fine.
There are probably good rice alternative grown closer to Germany than California. American rice not grown in California have high arsenic level because they are grown in old cotton fields ( I think).

Maybe this helps

 

David3

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Hello everyone,

I've read some threads already and therefore want to stop eating pasta (what I did way too much). At the moment I have quinoa with beans and broccoli (trying to implement the daily dozen) with a variable salad / vegetable part for dinner.

I'm doing fine with quinoa, my question now would be, whether quinoa is healthy or better should be avoided. In some threads I've read about rice, but I don't know which one to buy, since there is a high amount of heavy metal (is this the right term? It does not sound right :eyes: - I mean lead and stuff like that) in many brands.

Long story short: are there any better options for quinoa (and speaking of carbs: whole grain oatmeal) or are they fine?

Thank you very much in advance!
.
Common whole grains include wheat, rye, barley, millet, corn, and oats. These can be boiled and eaten by themselves, or with lentils/beans, or in a soup.

Barley should be rinsed after cooking, or it tends to taste slightly slippery.
.
 

silva

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Hello everyone,

I've read some threads already and therefore want to stop eating pasta (what I did way too much). At the moment I have quinoa with beans and broccoli (trying to implement the daily dozen) with a variable salad / vegetable part for dinner.

I'm doing fine with quinoa, my question now would be, whether quinoa is healthy or better should be avoided. In some threads I've read about rice, but I don't know which one to buy, since there is a high amount of heavy metal (is this the right term? It does not sound right :eyes: - I mean lead and stuff like that) in many brands.

Long story short: are there any better options for quinoa (and speaking of carbs: whole grain oatmeal) or are they fine?

Thank you very much in advance!
Avoid processed carbs!
Whole carbs, the more intact the better, are healthy, containing higher amounts of nutrients than other food groups

Now that I look at that again I think I'll try quinoa again--though it is technically a seed.Not my favorite,but nutrient dense

Barley, oat groats, farro, kamut, all kinds of wheat,millet,sorghum

I try and have a cooked grain and fruit, along with ground flaxseed, every morning.
Cooked grains are also good as a sweet dessert with date paste and fruit, and non dairy milk
 
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silva

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Common whole grains include wheat, rye, barley, millet, corn, and oats. These can be boiled and eaten by themselves, or with lentils/beans, or in a soup.

Barley should be rinsed after cooking, or it tends to taste slightly slippery.
.
I've only used barley in soups. I've wondered if rinsing after being cooked reduces nutrition? Can't find a source
 

Tyll

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Thank you very much for all the good and informative answers! :)

Whole grains are much better than refined grains. Oatmeal is a whole grain. you can buy whole wheat bread or tortillas or pasta. I don't know if they do it in Germany, but here in America they have a "whole grain stamp". The higher the number the better.

I don't know about such a stamp. On the package it just says "full corn" and there is full grain - durum wheat semolina listed as ingredient. The German word is "Vollkorn-Hartweizengrieß" and I'm not sure, whether "durum wheat semolina" is the right translation..

Thank you for sharing the link to the discussion about rice, I will definitely read it.

Similarly, you should avoid oils, which contain no fiber and are the densest source of calories. If you avoid oils and don't overdose on other high-fat vegan foods (such as nuts, avocados, coconut milk, vegan chocolate, and most vegan "cheeses" and "meats"), you can eat starches all day long, and you will still not gain weight or otherwise damage your health.

I've read about taking one spoon of Flaxseed oil daily, should I stop do that? And another question, maybe on the wrong place here: how to get the betacarotenes and Vitamine K? As far as I know we can only get them with oil (sorry, I'm struggling with my English here), so I used to just make a carrot salad with vinegar and oil. Do you know a better way to get them? :)

Thank you for the Whole Grains Council link, I will have a look later.
 

Lou

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I'm not sure, whether "durum wheat semolina" is the right translation..
I'm pretty sure that is correct.
Durum wheat is just a different kind of wheat. I'm not sure if it is always a whole grain.
When in doubt compare the fiber content.
I've read about taking one spoon of Flaxseed oil daily, should I stop do that?

Omega fats are considered "essential fats". We need to include them in our diets. We usually don't have to worry about Omega 6, but omega 3 needs to be paid attention to. One of the components of Omega -3 is ALA, and ALA is found in Flaxseed oil. One tsp of flaxseed oil will give you lots of ALA.
And another question, maybe on the wrong place here: how to get the betacarotenes
beta carotenes are what our bodies use to make Vitamin A. For vegans, especially the WFPB kind, its not something we normally have to worry about. Its in just about all the fruits and vegetables we eat. Beta carotene itself is red/orange. So any fruit or vegetable that is red/orange has lots of beta carotene.
Foods with the highest amounts of beta carotene are
  • Carrots.
  • Sweet potatoes.
  • Winter squash.
  • Spinach and kale.
  • Fruits like cantaloupe and apricots.

Vitamin A is not water soluble so it can be toxic in high levels. but beta carotene is not. Over doing Vitamin A is hard to do but of course some people have managed it. If you take too much vitamin A (as a supplement) your skin will actually start looking yellow or orange. (not kidding).

Also if you take too much Vitamin A, if you go hiking, bunnies will follow you around (kidding).

and Vitamine K?

Vitamin K is also something that vegans, especially the WFPB kind, do not normally have to worry about.
Its not even included in most multivitamins. And we only need microscopic quantities. I think that is why its not often listed on labels. Cause it is hard to measure.

"Vitamin K is found in the following foods: Green leafy vegetables, such as kale, spinach, turnip greens, collards, Swiss chard, mustard greens, parsley, romaine, and green leaf lettuce. Vegetables such as Brussels sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, and cabbage"
As far as I know we can only get them with oil (sorry, I'm struggling with my English here), so I used to just make a carrot salad with vinegar and oil. Do you know a better way to get them? :)
a carrot salad with vinegar and oil sounds great but you don't have to make a super concerted effort to get those vitamins. As you can see from the foods I listed they are in just about any kind of salad.
 
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silva

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Ground flaxseed (linseed) is a better choice than the oil
I have a Tblsp on my morning grains
 
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Lou

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Ground flaxseed (linseed) is a better choice than the oil
I have a Tblsp on my morning grains
I agree but....
Some mornings I don't have oatmeal. then the question is when and how can I get my ALA.
I do make up for it sometimes by throwing a Tbsp of ground flaxseed in a smoothie.
Right now I have Flaxseed oil capsules which I can take with my vitamins on days that I skip the flaxseed.
And the article you cited didn't mention flaxseed oil at all. For all we know its just as good. Even if its not just as good - its still better than nothing.
Probably not as cheap as ground flaxseed. The oil is probably cheaper than the capsules, too.
 

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I agree but....
Some mornings I don't have oatmeal. then the question is when and how can I get my ALA.
I do make up for it sometimes by throwing a Tbsp of ground flaxseed in a smoothie.
Right now I have Flaxseed oil capsules which I can take with my vitamins on days that I skip the flaxseed.
And the article you cited didn't mention flaxseed oil at all. For all we know its just as good. Even if its not just as good - its still better than nothing.
Probably not as cheap as ground flaxseed. The oil is probably cheaper than the capsules, too.
That's because Dr Greger doesn't ever advocate oils. You're losing a lot of what flaxseeds offer--more than ALA omegas
I would put them in smoothies too, I haven't done them in quite a while
Or soups
 
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Tyll

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beta carotenes are what our bodies use to make Vitamin A. For vegans, especially the WFPB kind, its not something we normally have to worry about. Its in just about all the fruits and vegetables we eat. Beta carotene itself is red/orange. So any fruit or vegetable that is red/orange has lots of beta carotene.
Foods with the highest amounts of beta carotene are
  • Carrots.
  • Sweet potatoes.
  • Winter squash.
  • Spinach and kale.
  • Fruits like cantaloupe and apricots.

Vitamin A is not water soluble so it can be toxic in high levels. but beta carotene is not. Over doing Vitamin A is hard to do but of course some people have managed it. If you take too much vitamin A (as a supplement) your skin will actually start looking yellow or orange. (not kidding).

I've read something about the absorption of vitamins (A, D, E and K) which can only occur when combined with fats. Unfortunately I don't remember the source, but when I get you right, I can just eat some of the foods listed above without anything else and still get these vitamins?

I remember a scene in House, M.D. in which a guy is orange because of to much Vitamin A :)

Also if you take too much Vitamin A, if you go hiking, bunnies will follow you around (kidding).

😄

Ground flaxseed (linseed) is a better choice than the oil
I have a Tblsp on my morning grains

I thought I've read something about flaxseed (or Psyllium? Maybe it's the same problem with both), but again, I don't remember the source.. :(

It's a kind of dilemma: if you just put them on your meal, they won't get fully opened and there are not as much ALAs to absorb. But if you break them up just before eating, there will be hydrogen cyanide.

Is this true? How to eat them safely, but get as much healthy nutritions as possible out of it?

Again, thank you both very much for your helpful informations!
 

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Some people forget that both vegetables and fruit contain carbs and should also be included in a healthy diet :


Carbohydrates a broad category and not all carbs are the same. It's the type, quality and quantity of carbohydrate in our diet that's important.
There is strong evidence that fibre, found in wholegrain versions of starchy carbs, for example, is good for our health.

Fibre is found in the cell walls of foods that come from plants. Good sources of fibre include fruit and vegetables, wholegrain bread, wholewheat pasta, and pulses (beans and lentils).

The government's healthy eating advice, illustrated by the Eatwell Guide, recommends that just over a third of your diet should be made up of starchy foods, such as potatoes, bread, rice and pasta, and over another third should be fruit and vegetables.

Carbohydrates should be your body's main source of energy in a healthy, balanced diet.

Carbohydrates are the body's main source of energy. In their absence, your body will use protein and fat for energy.

It may also be hard to get enough fibre, which is important for long-term health.

Healthy sources of carbohydrates, such as higher fibre starchy foods, vegetables, fruit and legumes, are also an important source of nutrients, such as calcium, iron and B vitamins.

But we should not eat too much protein-rich and starchy foods. Starchy foods should make up about a third of the food we eat, and we all need to eat more fruit and vegetables.
Fruit, vegetables, pulses and starchy foods (especially higher fibre varieties) provide a wider range of nutrients (such as vitamins and minerals), which are beneficial to health.

 

poivron

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I've read about taking one spoon of Flaxseed oil daily, should I stop do that? And another question, maybe on the wrong place here: how to get the betacarotenes and Vitamine K? As far as I know we can only get them with oil (sorry, I'm struggling with my English here), so I used to just make a carrot salad with vinegar and oil. Do you know a better way to get them? :)

I used to take flax oil, too, but after reading and listening to the sources I mentioned above, I realized that it was unnecessary. According to Drs. McDougall, Barnard, Esselstyn, and Greger (and likely others), you do not need any oils. One or two tablespoons of ground flax seed (also known as flax meal) will give you extra fiber, omega-3 fatty acids, and lignans, but even that is optional. You do not need it.

If you listen to the doctors rather than random people on blogs and forums, the vegan diet is not at all complicated. You do not need to take a slew of supplements and oils and exotic foods while avoiding a long list of plant foods. You just need to eat a variety of whole plant foods, roughly half starches (like potatoes, corn, whole wheat, brown rice) and half green vegetables. The only supplement you need is vitamin B12. For vitamin D, you can take a supplement, but it's arguably better to just get some natural sunlight. You do not need to do anything special for Omega-3 fatty acids. Plants have the right ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6 in them, the ratio we evolved eating. It's only if you eat oils (yes, oils; most of them, even the ones that are high in Omega-3, have an even higher amount of Omega-6) and/or processed foods (which contain oils) that you will run into trouble with your Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio.

Again, if you listen to random people on the internet, you will come to believe that you need oils and fats for fat-soluble vitamins. The doctors themselves point out that all plant foods have small amounts of fat in them. Even broccoli has some fat in it. If you eat a whole-foods vegan diet while avoiding high-fat foods, your diet will still be something like 7-10% fat. You will not be deficient in the fat-soluble vitamins.

I am also a random person on the internet, so I urge you to check what the doctors I mentioned actually say. If you listen to what people heard or think they heard from the doctors, you will inevitably absorb a lot of misinformation. It's best to go right to the source.
 
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poivron

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Some people forget that both vegetables and fruit contain carbs and should also be included in a healthy diet :


Carbohydrates a broad category and not all carbs are the same. It's the type, quality and quantity of carbohydrate in our diet that's important.
There is strong evidence that fibre, found in wholegrain versions of starchy carbs, for example, is good for our health.

Fibre is found in the cell walls of foods that come from plants. Good sources of fibre include fruit and vegetables, wholegrain bread, wholewheat pasta, and pulses (beans and lentils).

The government's healthy eating advice, illustrated by the Eatwell Guide, recommends that just over a third of your diet should be made up of starchy foods, such as potatoes, bread, rice and pasta, and over another third should be fruit and vegetables.

Carbohydrates should be your body's main source of energy in a healthy, balanced diet.

Carbohydrates are the body's main source of energy. In their absence, your body will use protein and fat for energy.

It may also be hard to get enough fibre, which is important for long-term health.

Healthy sources of carbohydrates, such as higher fibre starchy foods, vegetables, fruit and legumes, are also an important source of nutrients, such as calcium, iron and B vitamins.

But we should not eat too much protein-rich and starchy foods. Starchy foods should make up about a third of the food we eat, and we all need to eat more fruit and vegetables.
Fruit, vegetables, pulses and starchy foods (especially higher fibre varieties) provide a wider range of nutrients (such as vitamins and minerals), which are beneficial to health.


These web sites are written for people who eat animals. If you don't eat animals, and you avoid oils and high-fat foods, and you only get 30% of your calories in the form of starches (also known as carbohydrates), you will end up being hungry all the time. Dr. McDougall suggests, if I recall correctly, at least 50% carbs (and that's if you want to lose weight). But you don't need to count your carbs; you just eat the allowed foods (no animal products, no processed foods, no oils, limited high-fat foods) until you're satisfied. It works for me.
 

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These web sites are written for people who eat animals. If you don't eat animals, and you avoid oils and high-fat foods, and you only get 30% of your calories in the form of starches (also known as carbohydrates), you will end up being hungry all the time. Dr. McDougall suggests, if I recall correctly, at least 50% carbs (and that's if you want to lose weight). But you don't need to count your carbs; you just eat the allowed foods (no animal products, no processed foods, no oils, limited high-fat foods) until you're satisfied. It works for me.

Not at all. You didn't click onto the Eatwell Guide link.
 
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David3

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Personally I think carbs and grains have gotten a bad reputation. They really need a better public relations director.

Carbs are good. Grains are good. But in moderation.

Both Fuhrman and Gregar recommend only 3 servings of grains a day. Furhman even limits it to 1 or 2 if you are trying to lose weight.

The thing is a lot of us eat more than 3 every day. A bagel sandwich for breakfast is two. Then a sandwich for lunch is another two. Rice of pasta for dinner is another one. And if you have some cookies or corn chips you are then up to 6. But its easy to get back down to 3. Oatmeal for breakfast is just one. a veggie wrap or salad for lunch is one more. then you still have room for pasta or rice for dinner.

Whole grains are much better than refined grains. Oatmeal is a whole grain. you can buy whole wheat bread or tortillas or pasta. I don't know if they do it in Germany, but here in America they have a "whole grain stamp". The higher the number the better. If not you can check the ingredients. but be aware that some companies are deceptive. They may list whole grain wheat as the first ingredient and wheat flour as the second. Here in America the product may only be 51% whole grain. You can also check the number of grams of fiber on the package. This makes a way of comparing two products.

Although quinoa is technically (botanically) a seed. Nutrition-wise its still considered a grain. And should be counted a a grain. It does have more protein and fiber than rice so it is a healthier choice. Its also sort of expensive.

Of course brown rice is better than white rice. But you are correct to worry about heavy metals. The arsenic levels of rice is very high. There are some things you can do to limit the arsenic levels.

We have discussed arsenic in rice in several places in this forum. this thread may have the best info.

Are grains a high calorie food?
 

Lou

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Are grains a high calorie food?
I wouldn't classify them as High Calorie. And whole grains are not "Calorie Dense".
But I think that question misses the point. Carbs should be providing us with most of our energy.
 

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Personally I think carbs and grains have gotten a bad reputation. They really need a better public relations director.

Carbs are good. Grains are good. But in moderation.

Both Fuhrman and Gregar recommend only 3 servings of grains a day. Furhman even limits it to 1 or 2 if you are trying to lose weight.

The thing is a lot of us eat more than 3 every day. A bagel sandwich for breakfast is two. Then a sandwich for lunch is another two. Rice of pasta for dinner is another one. And if you have some cookies or corn chips you are then up to 6. But its easy to get back down to 3. Oatmeal for breakfast is just one. a veggie wrap or salad for lunch is one more. then you still have room for pasta or rice for dinner.

Whole grains are much better than refined grains. Oatmeal is a whole grain. you can buy whole wheat bread or tortillas or pasta. I don't know if they do it in Germany, but here in America they have a "whole grain stamp". The higher the number the better. If not you can check the ingredients. but be aware that some companies are deceptive. They may list whole grain wheat as the first ingredient and wheat flour as the second. Here in America the product may only be 51% whole grain. You can also check the number of grams of fiber on the package. This makes a way of comparing two products.

Although quinoa is technically (botanically) a seed. Nutrition-wise its still considered a grain. And should be counted a a grain. It does have more protein and fiber than rice so it is a healthier choice. Its also sort of expensive.

Of course brown rice is better than white rice. But you are correct to worry about heavy metals. The arsenic levels of rice is very high. There are some things you can do to limit the arsenic levels.

We have discussed arsenic in rice in several places in this forum. this thread may have the best info.

Lou, Dr. Greger’s Daily Dozen recommendations are minimums, not maximums.
I used to take flax oil, too, but after reading and listening to the sources I mentioned above, I realized that it was unnecessary. According to Drs. McDougall, Barnard, Esselstyn, and Greger (and likely others), you do not need any oils. One or two tablespoons of ground flax seed (also known as flax meal) will give you extra fiber, omega-3 fatty acids, and lignans, but even that is optional. You do not need it.

If you listen to the doctors rather than random people on blogs and forums, the vegan diet is not at all complicated. You do not need to take a slew of supplements and oils and exotic foods while avoiding a long list of plant foods. You just need to eat a variety of whole plant foods, roughly half starches (like potatoes, corn, whole wheat, brown rice) and half green vegetables. The only supplement you need is vitamin B12. For vitamin D, you can take a supplement, but it's arguably better to just get some natural sunlight. You do not need to do anything special for Omega-3 fatty acids. Plants have the right ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6 in them, the ratio we evolved eating. It's only if you eat oils (yes, oils; most of them, even the ones that are high in Omega-3, have an even higher amount of Omega-6) and/or processed foods (which contain oils) that you will run into trouble with your Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio.

Again, if you listen to random people on the internet, you will come to believe that you need oils and fats for fat-soluble vitamins. The doctors themselves point out that all plant foods have small amounts of fat in them. Even broccoli has some fat in it. If you eat a whole-foods vegan diet while avoiding high-fat foods, your diet will still be something like 7-10% fat. You will not be deficient in the fat-soluble vitamins.

I am also a random person on the internet, so I urge you to check what the doctors I mentioned actually say. If you listen to what people heard or think they heard from the doctors, you will inevitably absorb a lot of misinformation. It's best to go right to the source.
If you’d like people to go right to the source, please provide a link to the source.