US Gun Control Laws and Law Enforcement

[Spang]

The United States has a gun violence problem and a racist law enforcement problem. Gun control laws, like so many other laws, will disproportionately affect people of color. Additionally, I'm not convinced that it will solve the gun violence problem, as police kill people too--with guns (1,207 people were killed by police in 2015). And you still have gun manufacturers spitting out firearms.

I think it's important to understand the origins of police in the United States.

 

[Andy_T]

Hmmm... don't know how accurate this statistic is, but I have a hard time to believe that gun control laws would disproportionately affect people of colour.

Mind you, I am not questioning that the execution of any law in the US disproportionately affects people of colour, however, I think that ownership of guns is typically a "white" pastime.

This is just what I found with 5 minutes of googling:

... which would mean that 41 % of "non-hispanic white" respondents answered that they have a firearm at home, which is twice the ratio of other ethnicities....

from: The demographics and politics of gun-owning households

 

[Freesia]

I am sorry but when you look at police's actions in many places- body cams are not going to deter them. Many of them have what amounts to diplomatic protection from wrongdoing, and do not get held account for killing innocent civilians, particularly if it is a person with little money and societal status. We have to face the fact that in many countries, the police are no longer the police in the traditional sense.... and we are no safer for it either...

It is not only civilians with guns that are problematic, but government authorities too. Economic benefits may not trickle down from the upper echelons to the poor- but violence and brutality sure has a way of trickling to the poorest whether domestically or overseas. I get to see it when I go to certain parts of town and see poorer people of colour being harassed by police, over things like car registration (which they are unlikely to be able to pay for considering the NZ government's horrible austerity cuts).

 

[Andy_T]

I am sorry but when you look at police's actions in many places- body cams are not going to deter them. Many of them have what amounts to diplomatic protection from wrongdoing, and do not get held account for killing innocent civilians, particularly if it is a person with little money and societal status.

I agree that body cameras are only the first step. There also needs to be the will to pursue wrongdoing.
But body cams and the will to clean up police wrongdoings are certainly better suited to solving this problem then trying to defend yourself with a gun.

 

[FortyTwo]

I am sorry but when you look at police's actions in many places- body cams are not going to deter them. Many of them have what amounts to diplomatic protection from wrongdoing, and do not get held account for killing innocent civilians, particularly if it is a person with little money and societal status. We have to face the fact that in many countries, the police are no longer the police in the traditional sense.... and we are no safer for it either...

It is not only civilians with guns that are problematic, but government authorities too. Economic benefits may not trickle down from the upper echelons to the poor- but violence and brutality sure has a way of trickling to the poorest whether domestically or overseas. I get to see it when I go to certain parts of town and see poorer people of colour being harassed by police, over things like car registration (which they are unlikely to be able to pay for considering the NZ government's horrible austerity cuts).

This, definitely. We as a society, maybe even a global one, need to start rethinking how we view police and the use of violence in general.

Until then - taking extremely powerful guns away from the people who would use them to go on murder sprees needs to be a priority. There is no reason anyone in any country should be able to get an assault rifle so easily.

 

[Andy_T]

Australia Enjoys Another Peaceful Day Under Oppressive Gun Control Regime | The Betoota Advocate

 

[Freesia]

I think the problem is with society in general. For example today, I was sitting at an intersection where there was a shopping strip- one of the shops had a lovely, tall palm tree outside it. I was waiting and admiring the palm, when suddenly something below the palm caught my eye- it was a metal structure being made to look like a palm tree which had been erected next to it.

I thought "Must be a cellphone tower..." but when I looked at it, I realised it was actually a set of 8 surveillance cameras, made to look like a tree. The fact that someone would be sitting in an office somewhere, thinking "I know! Surveillance would be pretty and far more accepted if it was in form of a tree!" really bugs me.

The problems we have in society go far beyond the person who buys a gun. Police are civilians too (though I often get the feeling that many believe they have special rights).

In the protest movement here, the police are hired to protect our government, and corporate people, while the people themselves are forced to protest and stand up for their own rights- which have been reduced right down- while governments have a huge military, and a giant police force armed to the teeth- all at their disposal and paid by them (well, our taxes, which is the most disturbing thing).

In New Zealand, the funding for our local policing has been cut right back, and they tend to do more revenue collecting-style policing, than solving crimes such as burglaries, which pile up unsolved...

also many police stations are being closed or partially closed due to funding cuts whereas the funding for police to protect government or corporate interests here mysteriously seems to have enough money in the budget.

I guess what I am trying to say is, why is it ok for police to have similar weapons if people are not allowed them? Dont keep kidding yourself that police are "here to protect us all" because those days are gone.

Personally I think nobody should have them. I despise guns, and war... I wish it would just all disappear altogether. I wish guns had never been invented. I cant believe the evil crap that has sprung up over the last few years, though I guess the seeds were sown for all this years ago.

In New Zealand, we are a small island nation. We now have 40,000 homeless people- before 2008 we had less than 200... try and process that and you will understand what I am dealing with.

 

[Moll Flanders]

Until then - taking extremely powerful guns away from the people who would use them to go on murder sprees needs to be a priority. There is no reason anyone in any country should be able to get an assault rifle so easily.

I completely agree.

In New Zealand, we are a small island nation. We now have 40,000 homeless people- before 2008 we had less than 200... try and process that and you will understand what I am dealing with.

Wow, I didn't know that. I don't really know much about NZ honestly. That is a shocking statistic.

 

[Freesia]

A lot of the people are living in slum style housing - for example living on the couch of a friend already living in substandard housing.. and there will be like 25 people in a 3 bedroom house... many other people living in garages, sheds, cars, the street, or having to squat in derelict buildings.

A number of things contributed to this, such as a major earthquake, the world's worst housing bubble in my city which has pushed a standard 3 bedroom house with a backyard up to 1 million dollars in price...

and the rents have also skyrocketed... also my city has 33,000 empty houses because of property speculators... (people buying multiple houses to rent them out and make money)

also the government has been trying to sell off the state houses so they have been evicting people (including a FB friend of mine) and many have nowhere to go.

There was a case recently of a couple with a newborn living in their car, and also a divorced mother with 2 kids, one of which had cancer, also living in their car, who had to park up near the hospital as the child was having treatments and needed to be there.

 

[Freesia]

Also, there have been many cuts to welfare too which have made it harder for the poorest to get- a number of people give up as the system has gotten too complicated to deal with.

And many, many other things.

 

[Spang]

Hmmm... don't know how accurate this statistic is, but I have a hard time to believe that gun control laws would disproportionately affect people of colour.

White people consume the most drugs in the U.S., however the drug laws, also rooted in racism, disproportionately affect people of color. It doesn't matter if white people have more guns, gun control laws will disproportionately affect people of color.

 

[Andy_T]

It doesn't matter if white people have more guns, gun control laws will disproportionately affect people of color.

What is your reasoning for that statement?
I don't understand your train of thought.

 

[Spang]

What is your reasoning for that statement?
I don't understand your train of thought.

I thought you were using the info in the graphic to suggest that since white people own more guns, gun control laws won't disproportionately affect people of color.

 

[Andy_T]

I thought you were using the info in the graphic to suggest that since white people own more guns, gun control laws won't disproportionately affect people of color.

Indeed, that is my conclusion.
It seems that white people generally like to (legally) own guns more than either black or hispanic people, so they would be affected more by restrictions on the ownership of firearms.

Let's face it... the idea is to limit the availability of very dangerous weapons (automatic rifles) and make it harder for people who either have a history of mental illness or terrorism affiliation to get guns in general, in order to make it more difficult for mass shootings (or just simple ones) to occur.

How many mass shootings perpetrated by people of colour can you remember?
To me, only the "sniper" case a few years back comes to mind...

So my question, how do you explain to me that such laws will affect people of colour more (I understand your use of the word "disproportionately" to mean more).

I understand that regrettably the current interpretation of the (hardly) existing gun laws by the police is something like

"White person wielding an assault rifle = upstanding patriot exercising his constitutional rights", while
"Coloured person wielding an assault rifle = armed thug/terrorist, up to no good, to be shot on sight"

But, if it was forbidden for everybody, that might actually reduce this discrepancy....

 

[Freesia]

African Americans dont have to be armed to be attacked by police though, they pretty much have to be just existing in front of them.

 

[ledboots]

So, gun control laws would stop a Muslim extremist from killing people, hmmm, France, for example?

 

[Andy_T]

Well, at least they would not simply have to walk into a f****ing gun shop and say "I would like to have an AR-15" ... if they feel like it....

And it is not just Muslim extremists that kill people...

 

[ledboots]

Well, at least they would not simply have to walk into a f****ing gun shop and say "I would like to have an AR-15" ... if they feel like it....

And it is not just Muslim extremists that kill people...

Of course not. But let's not pretend the whole world is safe except the sad US with our guns.

And the AR-15 type guns that are legal in the US are not assault rifles, as they are not automatic weapons. They do not spray bullets like a machine gun, the trigger is pulled for each bullet shot.

 

[PTree15]

Of course not. But let's not pretend the whole world is safe except the sad US with our guns.

And the AR-15 type guns that are legal in the US are not assault rifles, as they are not automatic weapons. They do not spray bullets like a machine gun, the trigger is pulled for each bullet shot.

Even if it requires a trigger pull for each shot, it allows for more rapid and longer shooting sessions before having to reload than a standard shotgun, I think. These weapons seem designed to kill multiple people at a time more quickly, which makes them more suited for military use.

 

[Spang]

Indeed, that is my conclusion.
It seems that white people generally like to (legally) own guns more than either black or hispanic people, so they would be affected more by restrictions on the ownership of firearms.

It doesn't matter if white people have more guns, gun control laws will disproportionately affect people of color.

But, if it was forbidden for everybody, that might actually reduce this discrepancy....

Illegal drugs are forbidden for everybody. White people consume most of the illegal drugs in the U.S., however the so-called War on Drugs disproportionately affect people of color.

Gun control laws will be similarly racist in its implementation. You'll still have gun violence, gun manufacturers spitting out firearms, and law enforcement killing people.