"God gave us animals to eat,so it's ok"?
- Thread starter VeganRachel
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OP
OP
Totally. I also believe Yeshua was an Essene, who were known to be vegetarians. See these great video's. Peace be with you friend.
OP
OP
Thank you for sharing. I also have a nice booklet and video from the Christian vegetarian association. Interestingly there
are some vegan pastors and even vegan churches in the U.S. There are some vegan or vegetarians within religions.
How could the "Lamb of God" or the "Prince of peace" possibly slaughter an animal to consume its' flesh and blood.
It is contradictory behavior.
David3
Forum Legend
Holy Bible, Matthew 8:28-34: Jesus drives demons into the bodies of live pigs, and then allowed those demons to drown the pigs:
28 When He arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met Him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”
32 He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw Him, they pleaded with Him to leave their region.
28 When He arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met Him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”
32 He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw Him, they pleaded with Him to leave their region.
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David3
Forum Legend
Holy Bible, Mark 11:12-14, 11:20-25: Jesus curses a fig tree
12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.
20 In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21 Peter remembered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!”
22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. 23 “Truly[d] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”
12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.
20 In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21 Peter remembered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!”
22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. 23 “Truly[d] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”
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OP
OP
I am not an expert on the bible.
Okay, so your quotations mean? You are putting up passages without any explanation of your beliefs.
That Yeshua was violent? angry? mean? in the "bible"?.
The "Bible" was deliberately altered to reflect a Constantine Roman pagan ideology of domination and control. The Bible does not
reflect the spiritual wisdom and compassion shown in the Nag Hammadhi scriptures. The "bible" has 66 chapters, while the
dead sea scroll Hammadhi texts have 777. Lots of valuable information was left out!, and although there is wisdom, a lot of
satanic/moloch/baal worship was left in. Thus the references to blood sacrificing animals, and sadly, children. Peace be with you.
You sure do switch a lot between "my beliefs" and making claims of what the bible says quite arbitrarily!
Your like to that conspiratorial Qanon based site has been noted
I have never in my life been told my refusal to eat animals was an affront to any god!
OP
OP
I have awareness of humans who were told that veganism is not what God wants. And, there are some preachers that state thatYou sure do switch a lot between "my beliefs" and making claims of what the bible says quite arbitrarily!
Your like to that conspiratorial Qanon based site has been noted
I have never in my life been told my refusal to eat animals was an affront to any god!
veganism is evil and of the devil. But I have never been told that to my face. Thousands of years ago, Constantine and the roman churches
told vegetarians that they were heretics by rejecting Gods gift of the animals to eat.
We are all entitled to our beliefs and the truth is what we believe it to be. I guess I switch as lot, that must be a part of my persona.
Shows you I am a baby when it comes to biblical knowledge. I actually like and believe in the truths from Qanon. I see this Qanon reality
coming true --very soon, as the hidden censored truths finally get honestly revealed by the MSM, and it ain't pretty. Many will freak out from the revelations (including about the ET's and what has been done to children). Namaste' to you.
David3
Forum Legend
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Central to Qanon philosophy is the almost messianic admiration of Donald Trump. Donald Trump, who removed the United States from the Paris Climate Change Accord. They might not be the good guys that you believe them to be.
As far as extraterrestrial disclosure goes, this is a very old story. In the 1940s and 1950s, George Adamski claimed to have made contact with extraterrestrials. When people made objective, rational criticism of his claims, Adamski would accuse them to trying to silence the truth. That's the problem with conspiracy theories - they can't be proven wrong, because those who prove them wrong must also be part of the conspiracy. The Big Conspiracy.
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David3
Forum Legend
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"The truth is what we believe it to be"?
Tell me: What if one person believes a certain thing to be true, and another person believes the opposite thing to be true. Can both be objectively true?
I believe the Earth is an approximately spherical body. Other people believe that the Earth is not at all spherical, but instead is flat (like a pancake). Can both of these be objectively true? No.
OP
OP
I learn more from the humans I disagree with than from the one's who share my beliefs. I think that's true of all of us.
I think Mr. T has his issues and none of us are perfect. He favors big business over the environment and has said some misogynistic things about
women, etcetera. From what I have heard the Earth is neither round nor flat, but it has vortexes inside going to the outside. It is possible that
each opinion has something to offer. I am a truth-er, but many mislabel that as "conspiracy". Actually there is a history behind the term
When JFK was assassinated by our own Government, the FBI.CIA did not like that witnesses were figuring out what really happened. So, they
coined the term "conspiracy theory" to debunk anything but the "official" government story. Also 9/11 was not pulled off by foreign males
who were not even competent to fly small planes, and building 7 was not hit by any plane yet imploded like a demolition. strange stuff.
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Well, then you can push back with "Ok, so why would an omnipotent being need to change his mind? Shouldn't he have known from the start what humans should eat?
Graeme M
Forum Legend
That was the exact argument a person gave me the other day. God DID know from the beginning what people would need to eat after the Flood. That is partly why He created the animals to begin with, so that when the time came people could eat them. He never expected that we wouldn't.
peacefulveglady
Forum Legend
God did give us animals to eat as Noah’s family did not have plants to eat for a year. It was suppose to be a year. Also Jesus came and he took the place of animal sacrifices.
What God is not Happy about is the factory farm abuse that goes on with animal slaughter today. The factory farms is so wrong today that its only for money and not feed people.
What God is not Happy about is the factory farm abuse that goes on with animal slaughter today. The factory farms is so wrong today that its only for money and not feed people.
Hi hi
Didn't read any of The replies which are already written I just want to give my 2 cents quickly in response to the email bulletin I received - if you consider this day and age as being a furthering in the evolution of the human spirit from as when it was given by God (along with human free will) - We can take upon ourselves with a good grace of dominion over our own direction as a whole which implies a responsibility to the individual for orienting our collective progress as a family of Earth in unity consciousness, we need to make sure that this is innerstood. The bible was written thousands of years ago. As an old version of ourselves we can consider what in the return of Christ which is now the awakening by which individuals gain a higher perspective of a nature and spirituality as a whole from within themselves in an empowerment - God is in a new revelation of what is right and wrong day by Through the existence of humanity itself. So we are literally playing God in every moment we make a choice and The Choice to fhree the spirit of animals as a whole to be included in the sentence reverence that is godly will behold our higher potential realisation in innocent purity divine freedom and deeper intelligence
️
Didn't read any of The replies which are already written I just want to give my 2 cents quickly in response to the email bulletin I received - if you consider this day and age as being a furthering in the evolution of the human spirit from as when it was given by God (along with human free will) - We can take upon ourselves with a good grace of dominion over our own direction as a whole which implies a responsibility to the individual for orienting our collective progress as a family of Earth in unity consciousness, we need to make sure that this is innerstood. The bible was written thousands of years ago. As an old version of ourselves we can consider what in the return of Christ which is now the awakening by which individuals gain a higher perspective of a nature and spirituality as a whole from within themselves in an empowerment - God is in a new revelation of what is right and wrong day by Through the existence of humanity itself. So we are literally playing God in every moment we make a choice and The Choice to fhree the spirit of animals as a whole to be included in the sentence reverence that is godly will behold our higher potential realisation in innocent purity divine freedom and deeper intelligence
️
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
How do you know what he was thinking?...
Regardless, an omnipotent being would have known the right diet from the start. No excuses.
And this is just one of quite a few contradictions....
So, why are there contradictions? Don't tell me, let me guess. Written by man, inspired by god, right? A very common excuse...
Along the same lines, why couldn't a perfect god provide each biblical author with "customized" ideas/inspirations in such a way as to make all of their stories consistent?...
And don't even get me started about the dinosaurs... 6,000 year old earth. Right?....
The difference between philosophy and religion: religion has its basis in belief without reason; philosophy is a critic of beliefs and looks for justification for behaviors beyond dogmatic commandments and beliefs. I believe kindness is the essence of humanity and the hallmark of civilization and therefore I seek to be kind to other beings and to avoid being a cause for their suffering.
peacefulveglady
Forum Legend
That is great way of thinking , I can still worship God and be full of compassion. I came out on my facebook in 2019 to my Christian friends and said this ,Hello I am coming out too the Christian Community to say I cannot be Merciful and Peaceful person honoring God , by eating animal flesh and animal products, I want too better my health, my environment and community and combat factory farming and be against animal testing. There is so much harmful stuff in animal products today and I am going to be an activist too lowering the suffering of animals and health issues resulting from excessive animal products intake.. Judging me for this will not be toelrated
Oluwamuyiwa
Forum Devotee
@VeganRachel,
I am so glad you brought this up, and I would base my response off the bible so you can use it to try and educate the Christians who still believe the statement that; "God gave us the animals to eat, so it's okay to eat them". But I would also be using reason(logic) to affirm what the bible says, because man alone was given reason among all earthly beast so he can know his Creator and dominate all other beasts by ruling over them.
I am not religious anymore, I don't go to church anymore, I have established a personal relationship with God through His Son Yeshua, and He has opened my eyes to so much more information Christians are ignorant of.
Let's go to the beginning in the book of Genesis, God created the animals before man, and He gave man the first Law, which applies to each and every one of us today;
"God also said, 'I give you all plants that bear seed everywhere on earth, and every bearing fruit which yields seed: they shall be yours for food. All green plants I give for food to the wild animals, to all the birds of heaven, and to all reptiles on earth, every living creature.' So it was; and God saw all that He had made, and it was very good (Gen. 1:29-30)".
This clearly shows that man and the animals were never supposed to eat the flesh of one another, and those that rebelled and didn't obey this order, suffer the consequences till today. Let's use reason to confirm this, compare these two birds; a vulture and a pigeon, which looks better and more healthy? Compare these two wild beasts; an hyena and a zebra, which looks beautiful and more healthy? You should know the answer, and the reason for the answer.
Let's move a bit further, the question that would be on your mind then should be, when did eating of animals begin? It started during the time of Noah, when the Watchers took the daughter's of men as wives and started giving birth to Giants. The bones of these giants are being discovered by archeologist till today. Now these Giants couldn't be sustained with a plant-based diet, they were enormous and needed more calories, so they started eating the flesh of animals, thereby teaching man to do the same. And when the animals started growing short in population, the Giants turned on man and started eating them instead, that was the reason for the flood, to cleanse the land from the excessive shedding of blood (Gen. 6:1-8). Now, many Christians would argue that God gave Noah the permission to eat flesh after the flood. I would implore us to use reason once again, if they believe that God doesn't change His mind (1 Sam. 15:29), why would He change His mind and tell Noah that he and his family can now eat the flesh of animals, when He had given all men the first Law of diet. The bible reveals the truth about that in (Num. 11:4-34), the Israelites had left Egypt with their cattles, beast and all, but they couldn't kill or eat any because it's against the dietary law of God. That was the reason God rained manna (bread of Angels), but because they had become so addicted to eating meat in Egypt just as we all are today, it was kinda difficult to stop, so they grumbled for meat and they got their wish, with death as a punishment.
Due to a desire not to make this longer than it should for reading sake, I would try to round it up with one of my favorite mentors for motivating me to stick to a vegan diet. Daniel is his name, He was a vegan who understood the dietary law of God even when all others had forgotten (Dan. 1:6-16). His decision not to defile himself with meat, earned him the favor of God and protection from evil. Ever noticed this as a vegan, that even animals sense the change in our body chemistry, that they seem to be at peace with us even if they were aggressive by nature? If you haven't, I sure have, and I love the experience.
Yeshua and His disciples were vegans, John the Baptist was, the part in the bible which says that Yeshua claimed that: "a man is not defiled by what goes into his mouth, but by what comes out of it" (Matt. 15:10-20), is true but must be understood. Eating of flesh is an act, an act of disobedience - 'disobedience will not enter into a man, but will come out of the man, from his heart; and therefore will he be defiled when he shall eat forbidden food'. This was basically what resulted in the fall of Adam and Eve, they were defiled by disobedience not by the fruit itself.
Honestly, there's a lot I could share to reinforce my beliefs, but like I said, it's my beliefs, so you don't need to agree to any of it, all you can do is seek it out yourself and I hope you find it.
Peace & Love.
Cyril
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