Extinction Rebellion demands action, London week-long disruption

Second Summer

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Thousands of people are taking to the streets of London on Monday, planning, blocking traffic and causing widespread disruption to demand action over the escalating ecological crisis.

Hundreds of protesters slept in tents in Hyde Park overnight and many more from around the UK joined them at five makeshift camps across the capital for the demonstration, which is expected to last for at least a week.
More: Thousands join Extinction Rebellion protests across London (15. April 2019)
 
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The situation is getting more and more serious and every now and then the government does one small thing towards improving the situation but continues to endorse and encourage most of the very things that cause the damage. I'm glad to see people protesting again like we used to in the eighties. I was starting to lose hope in humanity!
 
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The situation is getting more and more serious and every now and then the government does one small thing towards improving the situation but continues to endorse and encourage most of the very things that cause the damage. I'm glad to see people protesting again like we used to in the eighties. I was starting to lose hope in humanity!
I agree, much more radical action is needed, given the severity of the situation. While it's wonderful when individuals and businesses take steps on their own to decrease their footprints, we can't wait around for everyone to do this, as that would take aeons and we simply don't have that much time. Governments have an absolutely crucial responsibility in bringing about positive changes to stave off the worst effects of climate change and stop environment degradation.
 
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On the other hand, the only way to reduce the overall footprint is if everybody takes steps to reduce their footprint.
Shell does not extract oil from the ground because they are inherently evil, but because everybody is willing to pay for petrol :(
 
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On the other hand, the only way to reduce the overall footprint is if everybody takes steps to reduce their footprint.
Shell does not extract oil from the ground because they are inherently evil, but because everybody is willing to pay for petrol :(
Absolutely, but for example, how many people could be bothered to recycle their waste before the government created legislation and home recycling bins? It was just us few hippie commie cranks! If the people can't be bothered to make changes, the governments of the world have to make them do so! :pout:
 
EDIT *** OK, I misunderstood this, thought it was similar to the vegan protests in Australia o_O

Those, I do not consider helpful.
Another Stunt That Does NOTHING For “The Animals” - OMG It's the Vegan Police
Last Week’s “Protests”: Constructive Criticism - OMG It's the Vegan Police

The Extinction Rebellion, on the other side, does make a lot of sense to me, and I fully support that.
Maybe you can elaborate on how they differ? The Extinction Rebellion protests do cause a lot of disruption, or at least that is the intention, so I suppose it could potentially create foes rather than friends.
 
There is definitely a much wider understanding in the population that climate change is one of the huge problems facing us. So while most people will not be ready to get arrested at a demonstration, the majority agrees that the subject is worthwhile.

Standing up for animals, on the other hand, alienates 97% of the population and convinces them that vegans are dangerous extremists.
 
These government action/individual action debates sometimes make it like it has to be one or the other - it has to be both.

But when people have to choose between cheapest or most ethical, or most convenient vs most ethical, it's not a fair system.

All the government has to do it make the environmental actions the same price or lower.

Just a simple system of taxes and subsidies (or maybe a carbon price that is more of a tax than a trade system).

1. Make wind power cheaper than natural gas by subsidizing wind power paid for by natural gas taxes.
2. Make electric cars and public transport cheaper with subsidies paid for by taxes on petrol and petrol and diesel cars.
3. Make meat more expensive by taxes, use the difference to make fresh fruit and veg the cheapest food per calorie by allowing these products not to pay any taxes.
4. Heavy taxation on all flights (possibly except one short haul flight per person per year).
5. Tax new, poorly insulated houses to subsidize passive houses.
6. Tax gas for water heating, use it to subsidize solar water heaters.
7. Solar panel subsidies.

The taxes have got to be big. 1000 pounds on a car doesn't do anything.

Ban:
New runways.
New fracking/coal/oil projects.
No more motorways/roads (only address localized gridlock situations with new roads) ---> saves a ton of money.

Also set aside some funds from green taxation to help with poverty, education, health care, and minimizing the chance that poor people lose out as a result.
 
I attended a local information meeting by Extinction Rebellion Hannover (Germany) yesterday.

I was quite surprised that when I asked whether anybody present was vegan (interesting for me for selecting a "Buddy"), about 8 of the present 10 people spontaneously lifted their hands.

However, it was explained to me that XR tries to "not shame" anybody, e.g. unless their local organization circle democratically elects that they should tell people not to fly to the holidays, they will not make such a statement. Seems to me to be not too rebellious a rebellion, if they try not to offend anybody.... even though their slogan is "Tell the truth" (as long as it is not considered offensive by anybody?)
 
'Extinction Rebellion' is to environmentalism what PETA is to animal rights, an organisation that does an excellent job in discrediting the cause that it is supposed to espouse. In the case of 'Extinction Rebellion' this meant disrupting public transport because of course bus, tube and train passengers are 'climate criminals'.

Interestingly 'Extinction Rebellion' has not targeted all the jet-setting 'Remainers' who work in a different European country to that of their origin and travel by aeroplane between the two at least once a year, if not more often that that.
 
discrediting the cause that it is supposed to espouse.

I don't agree with this.

Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth and others have been doing their petitions and polite campaigns and so on for years and years with almost no effect. The media does not report peaceful protesters and politicians do not respond to them...

But as soon as Extinction Rebellion started shutting down streets and so on, the media started reporting much more, people starting talking about it more, and the government actually responded by meeting them and making concessions fairly quickly (they declared an emergency and set a zero carbon by 2050 target). The government has sent a clear message now that polite, respectful protests will be ignored while disruptive ones will get attention and results immediately. They could not have sent a clearer message.

Extinction Rebellion are doing annoying tactics because it is what works, sadly. If we lived in a world in which politician's took logical, ethical decisions and listened to scientists that would be ideal, but we don't.

If we look at the history it seems that other movements such as feminism, gay rights, ethnic minority rights etc, only made progress by provoking situations that led to arrests, altercations in the streets and so on. And probably all of these struggled to count on a majority support initially as well. (I don't know much about the history of this, but this is the impression I have.)

I don't think Extinction Rebellion is trying to get people to like them except to the extent that it's necessary to save the planet.

I thought about it for a while and, although I can see how Extinction Rebellion could be very annoying to a great many people, I think they are the greater good.

I support them for now and will probably give them money. But it's a fine balance. They do seem to lack professionalism at times, be basically a white movement in a multicultural UK/Europe and if they go too far in disruption I may change my mind.

It seems to be that Extinction Rebellion is now the leader of the environmental movement in the UK, almost overnight. Other environmental organizations may now move to copy their tactics: for example Greenpeace stopping Boris Johnson's car in the street recently.

With Boris Johnson, basically more or less a global warming denier you might say, in control now and making hard right major appointments for his key staff, things are going to get interesting.

I'd like to see more famous people and actual scientists joining Extinction Rebellion. I want to see the UK's top climate scientists walking out of their Universities, walking down to London, and joining in Extinction Rebellion type protests.
 
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I have tried to discuss veganism a bit now with fellow vegans inside XR, and must say that I do sense some confusion.

Possibly that is due to the fact that there is no official position of XR on the topic, but one voice I have heard seriously said that as there will never be a widespread vegan movement in the society, what is needed is that XR mobilizes the population to demand action, and as a result governments will have no choice but to forbid factory farming. That strikes me as beyond naive, but again, there seems to be no official position on veganism so far.
 
I think they should be careful about it. Trying to do 2 things at once will likely mean that only people who support you on both things will support you. It will cause you to lose support.

If the people doing XR protests also want to do factory farm protests good for them, but I say keep it separate.

This will help with recruitment also.

I think XR may need to make an official position at the moment instead of ignoring this issue, perhaps saying. "Society needs to both transform agriculture and reduce the amount of meat that it eats. Veganism, vegetarianism and reducing the amount of meat you eat are all good responses to climate change."
 
I have tried to discuss this topic with meat-eaters a lot! Some at least agree that they will cut down on meat on one day a week. If they do it would make a lot of difference overall.

I cannot defend vegans who have kids and who claim to care about the environment. I just skim over that hypocrisy.:fp::rofl:
 
I talked to Extinction Rebellion a little on their facebook posts. I am not sure who is operating their FB account and responding to comments (or perhaps it is a mix of people) but they have said their position is that they don't advocate for specific solutions but that they do talk about the impact of animal agriculture.

There are a lot of vegans on there constantly attacking them, I don't think it is particularly helpful or strategic.