Does your clothes respect "good morals and secularism"?

robert99

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Only the French would come up with this - haute couture and Salafism
Woman forced to remove burkini on Nice beach by armed officers

Along the coast in Cannes, a mother of two told AFP on Tuesday she had been fined on the beach for wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.
The mayor of Cannes' ruling
  • "Access to beaches and for swimming is banned to any person wearing improper clothes that are not respectful of good morals and secularism."
  • "Beachwear which ostentatiously displays religious affiliation, when France and places of worship are currently the target of terrorist attacks, is liable to create risks of disrupting public order."
  • The infringement is punishable with a fine of €38 (£33)
  • The ban remains in place until 31 August 2016


Question is, what sort of clothes "respect good morals and secularism"?
 
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Andy_T

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The next time I go to France I will make sure to put on a burkini for swimming.

What about ladies wearing one-piece swimming suits? Do they have to change to bikini?
Are they also forcing divers to remove their wetsuits?

What about Roman Catholic nuns? Are they allowed to wear their oppressive garments?
See here: Where’s the Outrage Over Nun Beachwear?

IMO this ban is totally ridiculous, on the same level as those right-wing French politicians who demand that every kid has to eat pork at school to 'respect French values' . :mad:
 
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Moll Flanders

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I obviously forgot to click post reply earlier. I was really shocked to see this on the news today. I can't imagine being asked to take off some clothing by armed police, it doesn't seem like it can be legal! What if the woman wearing the clothing was underage?!
 

Amy SF

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I obviously forgot to click post reply earlier. I was really shocked to see this on the news today. I can't imagine being asked to take off some clothing by armed police, it doesn't seem like it can be legal! What if the woman wearing the clothing was underage?!
I think this ban is profiling Muslim women only. Obviously if you're not Muslim and wearing something a little modest or for medical reasons (you tend to burn a lot or are covering up a scarred body you're ashamed of), or something for sporting reasons, I think you're less likely to be harassed. Muslim women wearing a burkini specifically are the ones being discriminated against.
 
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Moll Flanders

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I think this ban is profiling Muslim women only. Obviously if you're not Muslim and wearing something a little modest or for medical reasons (you tend to burn a lot or are covering up a scarred body you're ashamed of), or something for sporting reasons, I think you'll less likely to be harassed. Muslim women wearing a burkini specifically are the ones being discriminated against.
Yes, I know, sorry that was my point, I was trying to put myself in the place of the women being harassed and singled out. I would be furious!
 

Indian Summer

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I can sort of see where these mayors are coming from, but obviously this ban is ridiculous and discriminatory. The mayors want to be seen as taking action and taking a stand against islamism, but as already said here, the burqini really isn't necessarily an oppressive garment any more than a diver's wet suit. I'm not sure how a so-called burqini is not "good morals", and if they want to ban all religiously-inspired clothing, then they will have their hands full.

I suggest they find something else to ban.
 
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Moll Flanders

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'Wear what you want' beach party at French embassy over burkini ban | Metro News

Fariah Syed, one of the organisers, told Metro.co.uk: ‘We set up the event to show solidarity with Muslim women, not only in France but around the world. The ban on burkinis, to us, contradicts all those values that France claims to uphold – liberty, equality, and fraternity. If a woman is free to expose her body, why isn’t she free to cover it up? ‘Women should be allowed to wear what they want, when they want. Women should be treated as equals regardless of their religion.
‘This ban perpetuates a stereotype of Muslim women and by removing their freedom of choice, the French government has effectively become that which they claim to be fighting against – oppressors.’
France 'burkini ban': Court to rule on beach fines - BBC News

France's Human Rights League and the anti-Islamophobia association argue the bans contravene freedom of opinion, religion, clothing and movement. They failed to persuade a court in Nice this week to overturn a ban at Villeneuve-Loubet west of Nice and are taking their case to France's highest administrative court, the Council of State (Conseil d'Etat).
 
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robert99

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Amy SF

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Burkini row: Nicolas Sarkozy calls for nationwide ban

Isn't he France's version of Donald Trump? Donald Trump who panders to the most fearful and paranoid American voters by saying he'd prevent all Muslims from entering the US (which is unconstitutional, BTW). Donald Trump who supports Brexit because it's more about keeping the Muslims out of England than for any economic reasons, because he doesn't know anything about economic policy.
 

Katrina

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I don't agree with banning the burkini, but I can see why some people feel hostility towards it. The burkini is a symbol of oppression and sexism. People can talk all they want about religious tolerance and so on, but what happens when women are receiving unequal treatment under the guise of "religious beliefs"? I think it's unfair that men of that faith are allowed to wear what they want, but women are expected to cover themselves.

ETA: That said.... the ONLY reason I disagree with a burkini-ban is because it punishes the women for something that isn't their fault.
 
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Mischief

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I'm not sure how bikinis are evidence of "good morals" and burkinis aren't.

The ban is ridiculous and discriminatory.
 
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Andy_T

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The burkini is a symbol of oppression and sexism.
My view on this is, if a man is likely to forbid his wife to show her face, then he will most certainly not allow her to go to the beach wearing a burkini. So I do not really understand those who say that a burkini (a piece of swimwear with perhaps an unlucky name, not the burqua) is a symbol of oppression.

But yes, what is a bikini - or a bathing suit - other than a symbol of patriarchal oppression?
Why are women all over the world forced to hide their mammary glands behind layers of fabric? Now, many here will claim "it is their personal wish" to do so, but c'mon, everybody knows that they are simply too oppressed to speak out what they really want! :D
 

beancounter

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There was a topless day celebrated on Hampton Beach in New Hampshire this past weekend.
It's not illegal for women to go topless

I heard that the event was titillating.:D

But yes, what is a bikini - or a bathing suit - other than a symbol of patriarchal oppression?
Why are women all over the world forced to hide their mammary glands behind layers of fabric? Now, many here will claim "it is their personal wish" to do so, but c'mon, everybody knows that they are simply too oppressed to speak out what they really want! :D
 

Mischief

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And the preceding post is a prime example of why the issue of what women are expe ted to wear is so fraught.
 

Katrina

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My view on this is, if a man is likely to forbid his wife to show her face, then he will most certainly not allow her to go to the beach wearing a burkini.
Fair enough, but we aren't talking about women who aren't allowed to show their faces. We are talking about women who aren't allowed to show their hair or their bodies.

So I do not really understand those who say that a burkini (a piece of swimwear with perhaps an unlucky name, not the burqua) is a symbol of oppression.
It is not just a piece of swimwear.... that's like saying that a hijab is simply a headscarf. There is more to it than that. There are Muslim women who have stated that they do not agree with wearing hijabs (Notice that the burkini includes a hijab-like attachement to cover the hair.) : As Muslim women, we actually ask you to not wear the hijab.

That said.... telling women to take off the burkini is also oppressive.....
 

Katrina

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Why are women all over the world forced to hide their mammary glands behind layers of fabric? Now, many here will claim "it is their personal wish" to do so, but c'mon, everybody knows that they are simply too oppressed to speak out what they really want! :D
Yeah, I really don't like the tone of your post here.....

The bikini has nothing to do with anything. It has no connection or association with violence or with the history of violence. If a woman takes off her top in North America or in most European countries, she does not get stoned to death. If you look at the history of Muslim women's clothing, there is all sorts of violence associated with it. I'm not saying that burkinis are horrible, but there are women (including myself) who look at it and can't help but see the history behind it....

And for the record, Canadian women have protested for their rights to go topless.

ETA: A more accurate comparison (rather than the bikini) would be the wedding ring. It used to symbolize the man marking the woman as his property, yet people still continue this practice. I'm not criticizing women who wear wedding rings. But I can understand why people wouldn't like wedding rings very much in the same way that I can understand people not liking the hijab or burkini and other clothing like that.
 
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