Climate Strike

Jamie in Chile

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When you hear her talk, she knows a lot about climate change and has really understood the issues. She is very smart and has obviously done a lot of reading on the issues and has a more honest ethical assessment of it than some people. her speech to the UK Parliament was totally on the money about UK issues in relation to climate change, and it's not even her country! I love the fact that she has turned down all the things that she's been offered outside Europe, and only goes to things in Europe that she can reach by train. Quite a difference to Emma Thompson who didn't even bother to fly economy class on her way to the protests from the US.

Greta Thurnberg is a real hero. Let's hope she goes into politics although that would be too late for climate solutions but a smart, ethical person like her will likely come to good judgements on other issues also.
 
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Lou

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Here in the US we now have the Sunrise Movement. I don't think she is officially connected to the movement but you almost can't find an article about the Sunrise Movement that doesn't mention her.

 
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Forest Nymph

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Yeah I posted a thread about her a few weeks ago in the Environment section.
 

Lou

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Oh, Hey. Whatever happened to that little girl who challenged the Pope to go Vegan for Lent?
 
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Forest Nymph

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Tomas

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Here in Belgium many middle- and elementary schoolers did a protest every Thursday in cities throughout the country (schools would willfully go to the protests with their students) for several months but now these seem to have come to an end with no actual resolution. The one that inspired these strikes was Greta. Very inspiring indeed but it lasted so long that it actually had an adverse effect on the adults they were trying to reach. Most people got tired of it and just ignored it completely.
 

Andy_T

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Oh, Hey. Whatever happened to that little girl who challenged the Pope to go Vegan for Lent?
I really like Genesis Butler and follow her, but that activity ("Vegan for Lent") stroke me as a not-well-thought-through piece of activism. Am not a huge fan of stupid acts of activism that are solely done for the sake of publicity, and that was the only way the whole idea seemed to make sense to me...
 

Lou

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I really like Genesis Butler and follow her, but that activity ("Vegan for Lent") stroke me as a not-well-thought-through piece of activism. Am not a huge fan of stupid acts of activism that are solely done for the sake of publicity, and that was the only way the whole idea seemed to make sense to me...

I disagree. She challenged the Pope to go Vegan. She offered a Million dollars for the charity of his choice if he would do it.
Yes, it did get her a lot of publicity. And if I understand activism correctly, publicity is A main objective. It is impossible to get people to care about your cause if they haven't heard of it. I also like that it Did have a clear objective: Pope goes vegan for Lent. It even has a built-in deadline or time frame. A clear observable objective that can be evaluated and a timeline is something more activists should consider having. I also thought that it was very do-able. In fact, thinking back I can't think why the Pope didn't go vegan for Lent. It's not like its against his religion. Most vegans don't get a million dollars. And it was for charity.

I hope the Veganuarary people sent the million dollars to .... I don't know.... Planned Parenthood?
 

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Well, I agree that it *did* have a clear objective, that the pope should not consume animals for some weeks.

However, what good would that have done? That's what I am wondering. Giving the million dollars to Planned Parenthood instead would be a really good idea.

From what I have heard, however, they are opting instead - also a very good idea - to help various small, locally run initiatives, often by people from disadvantaged communities, for whom grants of 100,000$ are an incredible contribution to their causes...

 
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Lou

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Well, I agree that it *did* have a clear objective, that the pope should not consume animals for some weeks.

However, what good would that have done? That's what I am wondering. Giving the million dollars to Planned Parenthood instead would be a really good idea.

From what I have heard, however, they are opting instead - also a very good idea - to help various small, locally run initiatives, often by people from disadvantaged communities, for whom grants of 100,000$ are an incredible contribution to their causes...

The Pope going celibate vegan for a week. What good would that do?

There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world. If just 10% became vegan for 40 days (that is how long lent is). that would be 5 million vegan days ( a unit I just made up. one person being vegan for one day.) or more than 13,000 vegan years. And maybe it would be more than 10%. And maybe it would be more than just for Lent. Regardless it would be a huge victory for the animals.

Basically it would the Pope giving a celestial seal of approval on veganism. Which IMHO is already past due.

I'm glad they donated the million dollars to the charities of their choice. Giving it to PP might have been sort of petty.
 
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Forest Nymph

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Well, I agree that it *did* have a clear objective, that the pope should not consume animals for some weeks.

However, what good would that have done? That's what I am wondering. Giving the million dollars to Planned Parenthood instead would be a really good idea.

From what I have heard, however, they are opting instead - also a very good idea - to help various small, locally run initiatives, often by people from disadvantaged communities, for whom grants of 100,000$ are an incredible contribution to their causes...

Why would a vegan organization give a million dollars to Planned Parenthood? No matter if I support PP, vegans and people on plant based diets range from pro life to anti natalist. Also climate change isn't really a population issue it's a consumption issue. Countries like India with huge populations don't compare to the consumption per capita in countries like the US.
 

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Why would a vegan organization give a million dollars to Planned Parenthood? No matter if I support PP, vegans and people on plant based diets range from pro life to anti natalist. Also climate change isn't really a population issue it's a consumption issue. Countries like India with huge populations don't compare to the consumption per capita in countries like the US.
It's both a consumption and population issue. You can't really separate one from the other. It's basic math.
 

Forest Nymph

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It's both a consumption and population issue. You can't really separate one from the other. It's basic math.
I actually have an environmental science degree, and it's a consumption issue. Calling it basic math is a misunderstanding of the complexity of ecology.

Controlling reproduction is a strategy but it's considered a much lesser strategy than controlling consumption of fossil fuels and meat.
 
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Forest Nymph

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"A child born in the United States will create thirteen times as much ecological damage over the course of his or her lifetime than a child born in Brazil,” reports the Sierra Club’s Dave Tilford, adding that the average American will drain as many resources as 35 natives of India and consume 53 times more goods and services than someone from China.
 
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Forest Nymph

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It's also very helpful to note that anthropogenic climate change started in the 1700s when the world's population was significantly smaller but *consumption* changed. Damage to ecosystems in North America by Western European excesses of ruminant (cattle, sheep) farming dates back even further to the 1500s according to indigenous complaints.

On top of all that, we can't murder the people who are already alive. We must control *consumption.*

Hope this helps!
 
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Mischief

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As you have so helpfully confirmed, it is basic math. 35 inhabitants of India (on the average) will cause as much damage as one inhabitant of the U.S. (on average). That's at current average rates of consumption.

As rates of consumption increase, more densely populated areas will see greater environmental impacts than less densely populated areas.
 

Forest Nymph

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As you have so helpfully confirmed, it is basic math. 35 inhabitants of India (on the average) will cause as much damage as one inhabitant of the U.S. (on average). That's at current average rates of consumption.

As rates of consumption increase, more densely populated areas will see greater environmental impacts than less densely populated areas.
Thats just simply untrue and oversimplification of the problem. Excesses of fossil fuel use in the West are already causing sea level rise in island nations, and devastation to arid regions of desert latitudes. The War in Syria and subsequent mass migration are rooted in lack of water initially influenced by climate change, caused by dominance of fossil fuel usage in Saudi Arabia and the capitalist West. The political atrocities associated are secondary to the core climate change cause.

Children already go without food in developing countries because of Western interest in feeding that grain to "meat animals." The vast majority of climate change damage has been wrought by Western capitalists, not by poor people in India.

Part of my undergrad classes was learning how people - mostly conservatives but also neoliberals - will attempt to twist and oversimplify science to deflect responsibility for consumption for various reasons, ranging from business to money to selfishness to guilt, so I have practice at this.

:)