Cat Fighting Saga

Dedalus

Mercurial and fleeting
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Deep in the heart of nowhere
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Last October I noticed a little black cat kept showing up outside. I spotted her several times but she dashed away. In a few days I was able to gain her trust - and she instantly turned into a cat anyone would adore. I don't think she was ever truly a 'stray' but was likely just dumped. She is friendly towards all people, loves to play, sleeps like rock in your lap. She followed me around the house for attention; always on my heels, clamoring for attention. For these reasons we decided we to go ahead and adopt her as one of our family ~ enter Olivia.

At this time the cat family already consisted of another female cat: Lily, and two male cats, Pip and Finn. Pip and Finn immediately took a liking to Olivia - and she returned their love. The three of them get along smashingly. Lily, however wanted nothing what-so-ever to do with Olivia. The very sight of her inspired a venomous growl. Of course we figured that this would pass with time - or it wouldn't, but either way, as long as the two cats remained civil and seperate - there would be no problem.

The problems began about a month later - when Olivia - now quite established in her new home, began to become very aggressive towards Lily. Though Lily avoided her at all costs, Olivia would seek her out where ever she was in the house, all her favorite napping spots, etc - and initiate battle. I think the only time she didn't pursue Lily was when we were home, upon which Olivia dominated all of our attention - causing Lily to recoil into hiding. Lily would not even enter the same room that we were in if Olivia was present there.

Notwithstanding, we were dilligent about riding this behavior out. We sprayed water on Olivia when she attacked Lily in front of us - and she quickly understood that when we were around, if she was caught doing this - she'd be in trouble. I've no misgivings about that - she knew this was not acceptable behavior. However - I'm certain that when we weren't around - she made Lily's life miserable. Still, I thought that it would only be a matter of time. I've had cats that didn't get along well before - and eventually they learned to mutually exist in the same household - it only took them staying out of each other's way which they always seemed to do.

However - as time went on things got worse, not better. It was now clear to me that much of the work day when we were gone - Olivia would position herself in a location of the house where she could pounce on Lily whenever possible. (It was difficult for her to break away from this habit on weekends, when we were home.) She'd sit in the window - spot Lily in the yard outside (they are indoor/outdoor cats) and then go sneak up on her to attack. Or wait for her to come in the cat door and then pounce. These were not battles for the most part - but simply Olivia tackling Lily and Lily fighting to get away - often a lengthly pursuit as well.

The past month - Lily refused to come in the cat door to enter the house anymore. She literally waited until one of us got home and opened the door and she would run to us to escort her inside. Once inside - her home was on top of the kitchen cupboards - where she ate and drank; too afraid to come down. I honestly have no idea if she ever used the indoor litter box anymore.

Last Sunday after spending a majority of the very nice day on top of the cupboards, Lily ventured out. I walked out with her to make sure the coast was clear and I did not see Olivia - so I assumed everything was fine. I didn't get two steps inside the door and I heard them fighting - Lily had been ambushed again. There was literally fur flying across the yard in the breeze - and when Lily took off she ran straight out into the road. Had a car been coming that would have been the end of her. When I got her back inside - tufts of fur were still falling off of her.

We then made the decision that as much as we loved her it was time to remove Olivia from our home. As difficult as this decision was to make - we saw no other solution. Lily's life was already a fraction of what it had been before. It was not a proper environment for her - before Olivia came, Lily was the princess of the house. She was now in fear every moment she was inside - and even outside would have to get far away from the house to achieve any peace. (Which means she would be in someone else's yard.) We have tried to deal with this issue for 6 months now, hoping the two of them would adjust over time. It was not to be.

So to summarize: I feel like I've really failed both cats. I took Olivia to a good shelter on Monday - but **** - I am so down about it. On the other hand - I have to think of Lily and providing her a safe and loving home too. I can only hope that because Olivia is so great with people that someone will adopt her soon. She really is an awesome cat except for her aggressive behavior towards Lily. She got along so well with the two boys - it's so sad. I miss her something awful - but I also cannot sit by and watch Lily retreat into a shell of the cat that she was. I was afraid that one of these days Lily just wouldn't come home at all.

Did I do the right thing? Is there something else I could have tried? Has anyone been in a similar situation?

Sorry this is so long.
 
I hope the best for Olivia. :hug: I don't think there's any point in second guessing yourself at this point. And I certainly can't second guess you - I haven't met your cats. I can share my experiences.

Neutered male cats always seem to work things out eventually. Female cats who did not grow up in a multicat household or as part of a colony* can be more difficult, even when spayed. They tend to be more territorial, and most often need the equivalent of "a room of her own" - a place where they can feel secure and which they feel belongs to them. I have had cases where I have literally had to provide that, with select easy going cats (initially, easy going neutered males) spending time in that room, so that the cat slowly adapts to a multi cat household. That process can take weeks, months or years.

I never break up spats by using aversive techniques - I think it only delays and escalates aggression. A group of cats basically has to figure out their social order on their own - where humans can control things is in the introduction process, keeping everyone safe from serious harm, and providing personal space. (Vertical space is very important in this regard - a cat who is five feet off the ground in a 150 square foot room will feel as though he has 150 square feet of his own, even if there are five other cats at floor level.) If there's a pattern of spats, or a spat that looks as though it might escalate, I separate and start introduction processes from scratch.

*I've never had an issue of this type with a female cat who grew up in the company of other cats, or one who has raised a litter.

I currently live with just under forty cats in a 1600 square foot house. They also have access to a secure outdoor area. There's an occasional squabble - growling and perhaps a bit of yowling - probably on the average of every one to two weeks. I've been really fortunate - I have a really good group of cats. Also, they have almost all* (except those who were dumped here as kittens or whose pregnant mothers I couldn't trap and get spayed before they gave birth) lived "on the streets", so they regularly encountered/interacted with other cats before joining the household. Also, I have been selective about who I have brought in - ones who were most vulnerable outside, and ones who evidenced a longing to be with other cats by hanging out around the outdoor cat enclosure.

*The four I took in from my ex's son and daughter in law when they had a baby and decided to get rid of their cats have had the only really difficult adjustment. The two girls had grown up as *only* cats before they were adopted by these relatives.

And no, I didn't plan on living with this many cats. I've brought the most vulnerable of the dumpees/strays/ferals inside. The area no kill shelters are full up, with many cats in their little cages for years on end, and the kill shelters have very short hold periods before the cats are killed. (And ferals are killed immediately.) All of the shelters I've talked to have told me that the best chance for those I can't bring in is to remain as outdoor cats at my place, even though not one has made it more than a year without disappearing - I can only guess that they fall victim to predators or the poisons that all of the surrounding area farmers put out.
 
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I hope the best for Olivia. :hug: I don't think there's any point in second guessing yourself at this point. And I certainly can't second guess you - I haven't met your cats. I can share my experiences.

Neutered male cats always seem to work things out eventually. Female cats who did not grow up in a multicat household or as part of a colony* can be more difficult, even when spayed. They tend to be more territorial, and most often need the equivalent of "a room of her own" - a place where they can feel secure and which they feel belongs to them. I have had cases where I have literally had to provide that, with select easy going cats (initially, easy going neutered males) spending time in that room, so that the cat slowly adapts to a multi cat household. That process can take weeks, months or years.

I never break up spats by using aversive techniques - I think it only delays and escalates aggression. A group of cats basically has to figure out their social order on their own - where humans can control things is in the introduction process, keeping everyone safe from serious harm, and providing personal space. (Vertical space is very important in this regard - a cat who is five feet off the ground in a 150 square foot room will feel as though he has 150 square feet of his own, even if there are five other cats at floor level.) If there's a pattern of spats, or a spat that looks as though it might escalate, I separate and start introduction processes from scratch.

*I've never had an issue of this type with a female cat who grew up in the company of other cats, or one who has raised a litter.

I currently live with just under forty cats in a 1600 square foot house. They also have access to a secure outdoor area. There's an occasional squabble - growling and perhaps a bit of yowling - probably on the average of every one to two weeks. I've been really fortunate - I have a really good group of cats. Also, they have almost all* (except those who were dumped here as kittens or whose pregnant mothers I couldn't trap and get spayed before they gave birth) lived "on the streets", so they regularly encountered/interacted with other cats before joining the household. Also, I have been selective about who I have brought in - ones who were most vulnerable outside, and ones who evidenced a longing to be with other cats by hanging out around the outdoor cat enclosure.

*The four I took in from my ex's son and daughter in law when they had a baby and decided to get rid of their cats have had the only really difficult adjustment. The two girls had grown up as *only* cats before they were adopted by these relatives.

And no, I didn't plan on living with this many cats. I've brought the most vulnerable of the dumpees/strays/ferals inside. The area no kill shelters are full up, with many cats in their little cages for years on end, and the kill shelters have very short hold periods before the cats are killed. (And ferals are killed immediately.) All of the shelters I've talked to have told me that the best chance for those I can't bring in is to remain as outdoor cats at my place, even though not one has made it more than a year without disappearing - I can only guess that they fall victim to predators or the poisons that all of the surrounding area farmers put out.

Thanks mlp. I can always count on you. :hug:

I've had my share of cats over time - but this is really a singular experience. A question on your introduction process: Do you get to a point when you put the two cats that have a history of fighting in the same room? I thought of doing this for Olivia's sake - but I thought it would only tramautize Lily.

I only use the sprayer when the battles inside the house get to the point where I feel if I don't break it up someone is going to get hurt and then I'm going to be taking a trip to the vet besides. One night Olivia found Lily in a drawer - since there was no easy escape route for Lily - things really got out of hand. The water at least gets their attention away from each other, but yeah - it doesn't mean much in regards to controlling their behavior.

I just called the shelter to check up on Olivia - she's made it through their processing and is out on the floor ready for adoption. They haven't had any problem with her. So - things on that front are looking good. I really, really hope she finds a good home and soon.
 
So sorry for your heartache, Dedalus. :hug: I hope Olivia finds a good home.

After reading about your experience, I am very fortunate that my Cybil, who is not a very easy-going cat with regard to other cats, has accepted Bogart to the point where they can absolutely co-habitate without any incident. She will never "like" Bogart and become pals with him, but at least she doesn't go after him. Now we have a new addition to our household, Benjamin. He and Bogart are so well suited for each other. I couldn't be more pleased. And Cybil is also tolerating Benjamin as long as he stays out of her "space".

Again, I am so sorry that things didn't work out for Olivia and Lily. :(
 
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Thanks KL. :hug:

It's a very tough time. As much as I know things weren't working out - I didn't want to give up on Olivia. And I'm still fighting the urge just to go back and adopt her back out again; to try something else, give it more time. We're moving to a new home soon - I was trying to hold out for that hoping the change would shake things up, but it was getting too difficult for Lily.
 
Dedalus: :hug: I'm sorry, too, that it didn't work out for Olivia and Lily.

Changing to a new home tends to traumatize cats at first until they get acclimated to their new environment. It will be difficult enough for Lily, as well as for your two boy cats, to adjust without also having to adjust to living with another cat in their new home. I think what you did was right, and I hope, also, that Olivia finds a good home where she gets to be the Queen all the time. :)
 
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Of course you did the right thing, you said it right here:

Lily's life was already a fraction of what it had been before. It was not a proper environment for her - before Olivia came, Lily was the princess of the house. She was now in fear every moment she was inside - and even outside would have to get far away from the house to achieve any peace. (Which means she would be in someone else's yard.) We have tried to deal with this issue for 6 months now, hoping the two of them would adjust over time. It was not to be.

With situations like this, you have to think about the quality of life of the kitties. I probably would have done the same thing in your situation. But it still sucks. So, :hug:
 
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Dedalus, fortunately I haven't had your situation, with real fighting.

As far as introductions go: I always quarantine for 3-4 months when bringing a new cat in. (I used to do the feline leukemia and aids test at the beginning and then again after 3-4 months, before releasing them into the population. Now, I'm doing it only at the end of the quarantine period, before exposing any of my cats to them, unless the cat's appearance gives me cause for concern, in which case I do it at the beginning and end of the quarantine period.) And although I observe pretty strict protocol procedures (change of shoes and clothes, washing of hands) and block the crack under the door so that there can be no physical contact with paws reaching under the doors, everyone sure knows that there's a newbie in there, and everyone can smell each other.

At the end of the quarantine period, depending on what I've observed about the peronality of the newbie(s), I may just open the door and let everyone integrate all at once, or I may spend a period of time letting one or more of my more mellow guys in to interact with the newbie(s). That way, shy newbies have already established relationships with some of the existing cats before they meet everyone, and that gives them a sense of belonging/confidence/security, and there is almost never any jockeying for position/territory. (That's really what was going on with your girls - the newcomer was a stronger personality, and she was driving Lily out of the territory in order to take it over. In a way, you were disadvantaged because you have so few cats, lol - if you had had several girls, it's probably unlikely that Olivia would have tried to take them all on.)

If I had a serious problem arise, I would start from scratch, keeping them completely separated and starting the introduction process over from scratch. I have fortunately never had that happen. And you also have to keep in mind that, where I live, there are no real options for rehoming - I either make it work, or the cat once again becomes an outdoor cat with the very short lifespans cats in this area have, or I take the cat to a kill shelter. (The latter I would not do - with the short holding periods for cats here, I would take the cat to my own vet and be there with him/her.)

ETA: I don't think it would make much sense to re-adopt Olivia - there is now already a well established pattern of behavior between Olivia and Lily, which both of them will remember, and which would be hard to break at this point.
 
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And although I observe pretty strict protocol procedures (change of shoes and clothes, washing of hands) and block the crack under the door so that there can be no physical contact with paws reaching under the doors, everyone sure knows that there's a newbie in there, and everyone can smell each other.

I have had a feral cat recovering in a safe trap at the far end of another room with the door closed (a room the other cats have never even been in, so it's not reacting to having less space), and the other cats in the house know there's a strange cat in that room and walk around hissy and upset. Feral cats don't make any noise either, so it's just a matter of smell or silent communication that I'm not aware of.

Some cats are much more tolerant of introductions than others, but it's always a process. It does seem to me that having a larger number of cats often makes the transition easier though.
 
It does seem to me that having a larger number of cats often makes the transition easier though.

This has been my experience.

For example, in my household, when someone is in the quarantine room, no one gets upset. Some cats ignore the new presence, but a lot of them spend time at/near the door, meowing, sniffing at the cracks, trying to move the board at the bottom of the door because they want to stick their paws in, etc. My challenge is always to get through the door without one of my nosier guys darting through to introduce himself. (And yeah, the nosier ones are all male - they are the household welcome wagon.)
 
If they have gotten through, is there always hissing, or have you ever seen a seamless introduction with adult cats?
 
I have seen completely seamless introductions with adult cats. In fact, I would say that the majority of the introductions here have been that way during the last several years. The ones that are most likely to be seamless are (1) older (more than a year or two old) males, provided that they have been neutered long enough before introduction so that all the male hormones have worked out of their systems, and (2) mother cats with their litters of kittens. I never release kittens into the general population until they are fairly self sufficient, just because I need to be able to keep close track of them for my own peace of mind, and because by the time I'm as sure as can be that their moms don't have feline leukemia or aids that would have been passed on to the kittens, the kittens are at least a couple of months old. All of my neutered males, and all of my females who came in as part of a litter themselves, are really terrifically tolerant of being stalked and jumped on by kittens. The females who came in as adults tend to swat at kittens if they get jumped by them.

ETA: I think that what I have now in the household is basically a cat colony, and, like a feral cat colony, the cats themselves have established a social order and are used to occasional additions. Frankly, though, I simply can't add any more. It's a good thing I'm moving to where there will be fewer cats crossing my doorstep, together with more resources to find other homes for any that do.
 
I have seen completely seamless introductions with adult cats.

The two boys, Pip and Finn - didn't take any transition time; to each other, Lily, Olivia - or even the big stray tom-cat that used to hang around. They seem to love everybody almost instantly and are excited to have new friends. Pip doesn't have a mean bone in his body. I don't think he's ever even hissed that I've heard.

Lily on the other hand - took no time with Pip; but every cat since she has scorned. She now tolerates Finn which is pretty good because sometimes he can play a little rough. I was hoping it would be that way with her and Olivia - but I could tell Finn was playing and Olivia was out for blood.

It has been a few days now - and though Lily still won't come in the cat door unless escorted, she has come down from the kitchen cabinets for greater periods of time. She is ultra-skittish, looking around every corner - but has been re-exploring the house. So I have hope that she will bounce back relatively unscathed. She is visibly more of a happy cat than a few days ago.

ETA: I don't think it would make much sense to re-adopt Olivia - there is now already a well established pattern of behavior between Olivia and Lily, which both of them will remember, and which would be hard to break at this point.

Yes I know. :( That's just the selfish part of me thinking that she loves me most of all...and that I can provide more love for her than anyone else on earth. I really think I can, :p but not at the expense of Lily's happiness. So...
 
I think when you have existing animals in the home, their welfare has to be considered before any new animals or potential new animals. Even when you have the room, the means, and the love to take care of more animals, if there is even the slightest possibility that it will create unhappiness with your existing pets, the existing pets' concerns should come first. Unfortunately. *sigh*
 
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I think when you have existing animals in the home, their welfare has to be considered before any new animals or potential new animals. Even when you have the room, the means, and the love to take care of more animals, if there is even the slightest possibility that it will create unhappiness with your existing pets, the existing pets' concerns should come first. Unfortunately. *sigh*

This is something I struggle with, specifically with respect to the cats. I know that there are a number of my cats who would like more of my attention. (There is no time where I am sitting or lying down that I don't have at least one cat in my lap and at least one cat on either side of me.) But when I have seen someone who I know will be dead in a matter of weeks or a few months at most if I don't bring him/her in.... well, that's why I'm living with the number of cats I am. It seems I am left second guessing all my decisions.
 
There's never a right answer to these kinds of situations. All you can do is the best you can think of at the time, and hope it works out.