West Calif residents - help stop landlords from forcing declawing

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Digger

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I hope the bill passes, as I feel that it is inhumane to force declawing and debarking. At the same time however I respect the landlord's right to protect their property and/or tenant community. Either allow pets without forcing them to be declawed or debarked... or don't allow pets at all.
 
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mlp

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Won't this just have the effect of even fewer landlords permitting pets?

Unless legislation like this is coupled with a requirement that X number of pets be permitted, I would think that the effect will be that even more animals will be dumped at shelters as the number of properties permitting pets dwindles.
 
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Digger

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Won't this just have the effect of even fewer landlords permitting pets?
I agree that this will be the case, but at the same time we all know that not every pet owner is responsible enough to insure that their animal companions don't destroy property and/or disrupt other tenants. I agree that animals shouldn't be forcibly declawed and/or debarked (hence my support of this bill) but at the same time I understand the landlord's perspective.
 
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mlp

Guest
I agree that this will be the case, but at the same time we all know that not every pet owner is responsible enough to insure that their animal companions don't destroy property and/or disrupt other tenants. I agree that animals shouldn't be forcibly declawed and/or debarked (hence my support of this bill) but at the same time I understand the landlord's perspective.

Yeah, but that's true for the tenants themselves, and for the tenants' children. Those issues, in the case of humans, are handled through lease provisions regarding termination of tenancy for creating a nuisance, security deposits, damages. There's really no reason the same can't be done with respect to nonhuman inhabitants of a property.
 
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Digger

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You make a good point, MLP. As long as tenants are held responsible for any damages that they incur... whether at the hands of children, pets, or the tenants themselves... it should be covered. My upstairs neighbors had a newborn who cried 24/7 and prevented me from getting a good night's sleep for almost a full year. It's not their fault, it's not mine, but I don't pay 500 bucks per month for rent to never be able to sleep.
 

Forster

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Won't this just have the effect of even fewer landlords permitting pets?

Unless legislation like this is coupled with a requirement that X number of pets be permitted, I would think that the effect will be that even more animals will be dumped at shelters as the number of properties permitting pets dwindles.

I have zero doubt this will be one of the unintended consequences of the bill, the other will be an increase in pets going to the pound so the humans can rent an apartment they want that no longer allows pets. The damage is one thing, and can be mitigated somewhat by a significant security deposit, but if a tenant is let in with a noisy dog other tenants will complain and may leave and it is very costly and time consuming to evict the "problem" tenant.
 
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Calliegirl

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Chances are the apartments end up damaged in other ways by the cats, and they often end up in the pound because of being declawed. Very often they stop using the litter box as their feet have become too sensitive to the litter, and start biting because of no longer being able to defend themselves with their claws. They also use scratching as a way to mark their territory. Since they can no longer do that, some start spraying who never did before. This doesn't happen every time, but it does happen a significant amount.
Just look at the huge number of cats at the animal shelters or being given away on craigslist who are declawed.
 
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mlp

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I don't think that there's actually a significant linkage, if any, between declawing and problematic behavior. If a higher percentage of declawed cats than cats with claws are rehomed/taken to the pound (I'm not sure there is - just following the premise of your argument), I suspect it has much more to do with the *tolerance* of the human caregivers - i.e., humans who would declaw a cat are probably less accepting of other vagaries of feline behavior than humans whos are willing to *work with* cats whose claws are intact.
 

Forster

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I'm more thinking about debarking than the declawing. I don't know that banning declawing will have much of an impact on landlords on way or the other. But... I still do think passing a law like this will just cause landlords to say the heck with it... no pets. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I never understood the declawing thing and honestly I didn't even know debarking existed until very recently.
 
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Calliegirl

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I actually haven't ever seen an apartment ad requiring debarking, but I have seen a lot for declawing.

I don't think that there's actually a significant linkage, if any, between declawing and problematic behavior. If a higher percentage of declawed cats than cats with claws are rehomed/taken to the pound (I'm not sure there is - just following the premise of your argument), I suspect it has much more to do with the *tolerance* of the human caregivers - i.e., humans who would declaw a cat are probably less accepting of other vagaries of feline behavior than humans whos are willing to *work with* cats whose claws are intact.

I'll look for sources later when I have more time, but they have shown a definite link between declawing and changes in behavior, specifically no longer using litter boxes, spraying and biting. I mentioned craigslist because of the ads I've seen, where people admit to new problems after getting their cats declawed, either right in the ad or through emails I've exchanged with them. I got the animal shelter drop off rate from people who work there and have mentioned the high rate of declawed cats turned over because of behavior issues.
 
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mlp

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I actually haven't ever seen an apartment ad requiring debarking, but I have seen a lot for declawing.



I'll look for sources later when I have more time, but they have shown a definite link between declawing and changes in behavior, specifically no longer using litter boxes, spraying and biting. I mentioned craigslist because of the ads I've seen, where people admit to new problems after getting their cats declawed, either right in the ad or through emails I've exchanged with them. I got the animal shelter drop off rate from people who work there and have mentioned the high rate of declawed cats turned over because of behavior issues.

The point I'm trying to make is that a proportion of cats will develop spraying, litterbox or aggression* issues regardless. People who won't declaw because they think it's wrong are most likely (IMO) to also be more informed about environmental factors (placement and cleaning of litterboxes, avoiding things that stress a cat, etc.) that would minimize such behavios from occurring and would also be much less likely to get rid of a cat because of such behaviors. I've live with a lot of cats, and have seen no difference in the rate of incidence of behavior issues arising between declawed cats and those with claws.

I just don't think the correlation has been proven (and frankly, from what I have experienced, I would say it does not exist). I think that, in order to accurately draw such a correlation, you would have to study the incidence of problem behaviors in hooseholds with both declawed and nondeclawed cats. IMO, the human variable is by far the most important one, both in terms of the environment provided and the readiness to give up on a cat.

*I've never encountered a cat with aggression issues toward humans. IME, cats defend themselves when cornered or afraid, some cats lash out when overstimulated, and several of my cats will swat at me if I disturb them after they've gotten comfortable in my lap. I don't consider any of those "aggression issues" - they are normal cat behaviors. I think some people mess up by playing rough and tumble with kittens and puppies - that's something I have always avoided, because it tends to create problems down the road. For those who say that their cat attacks people out of nowhere, I would suspect that one could readily find reasons for that in early interactions between the cat and one or more humans.

Declawing is cruel and unnecessary. That, in and of itself, is more than enough reason not to do it.