Best friend now carnivore

Amytomatojuice

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I feel devastated- which I know is ridiculous.
I’ve been a strict vegetarian for the last 29 years- my friend 26 years.
She had been a strict vegan for the last 6 years. I’ve admired her so much for it. I have tried going vegan but have struggled. Always went for her for advice. She’s been my best friend for 16 years - she s like a sister. Our ethics are the or so I thought!
She has announced she now eats meat. Not just a bit of chicken now and then but full on meat for every meal! She’s been posting pictures on Instagram of lamb heart, liver, kidneys. She’s been making gelatine sweets. Using cream made from animal fats. Going in about how she wasted her life and health being vegan. Saying how vegetables are toxic!!

it’s ridiculous but I’ve been crying this evening. I feel like I’ve lost my best friend. I feel like we’ve nothing in common.
How on earth could someone do a 360?
I literally don’t know what to say to her. I feel a bit heart broken.
 

silva

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I can't imagine! Has she gone through some trauma? I can't imagine being blindsided by something like that!
I'm not that strict- I mean if I find I've had something with gelatine, or honey or even dairy I get a bit upset, but meat??? Bizarre! I last bit into chicken when a taste test food was mislabeled as a veggie blend and bile just surged up my throat and I had to spit. That was before I knew what it was!!! To eat meat? To get past the sight and smell? Not even going into the fact that it's the flesh of someone caged and killed!

I have no words.

I'm not normally one to be so judgemental, but I don't know what I'd do. I can only think there's something very .... wrong.
I think I'd just stay away
 

StrangeOtter

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This must have been something that has been brewing inside her mind for a long time now, maybe years but she hasn't been able to talk about it. Maybe because she has feared judgement, or because she has been too proud to ask for help. It creates a lot of pressure to be held on a pedestal. Maybe this is why it came as a surprise.
I don't think that she upload those graphic images to be mean, I think she is insecure and looking for validation, which I guess she gets since she continues with the uploads?
I don't think you have lost your friend, only the image that you had of her has been changed and that is difficult to bare.
It's so hard to truly know anyone, even trying to know oneself is impossible.
I'm not taking sides here, but I'm trying my best to understand this situation.

Take care of yourself first. If that means to get some distance for a while (from instagram at least), I think that could help both of you. But I wouldn't advice you to ignore the situation and escape from it completely. You could for example tell her honestly that you are suffering and are asking for help, maybe via text message if talking face to face causes too strong emotions.

This is very difficult and I don't know if I'm of any help. It's good that you have confronted your emotions, those are completely normal and entirely okay to have and to process. It's good that you try your best to process them before talking to your friend.
Hopefully everything goes well.
 
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Jamie in Chile

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Hi, very sorry to hear this.

Can you explain a little more, was the first you heard of it when you saw things on social media and you haven't spoken yet?

If that's the case, you are going to have to speak to her at some point. Contact her only when you are feeling calm and not emotional.

But don't put if off for weeks either. You are going to have to speak.

I suggest avoiding commenting on social media or discussing by message and instead speak by phone where you can learn more from tone of voice and so on than just the words.

Try and begin the call/meeting with a normal positive open greeting and chit chat, and then talk in a questioning way, and calm and neutral and let her talk. Aim for her to be speaking more of the time than you, at least in the early part of the call.

If I had a friend in that situation, I'd be tempted to say that I don't agree with her decision, but talk about the act, while reaffirming your love and friendship for her. You can criticise the act if you want, but not the person.

This kind of advice is always limited by how little I know about you, her , and the situation. So sorry if it's not relevant for your situation. Good luck.

PS She is going to likely tell you that veganism was bad for her health. This may be true, or a lie, or an exaggerated excuse for meat. It's always hard to tell which one it is.

To understand whether it's true or just an excuse, you can ask her if she is willing to see a vegan nutritionist, assess her diet, take blood tests etc. But perhaps don't do that on the first call/meeting, depending on how it goes.
 

KLS52

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Something similar happened to me. The person who got me started with going vegetarian and then vegan a year later, went back to eating meat.
What’s different for me in this case is that she did suffer a trauma. She had just separated from her husband who was an alcoholic and later died at the age of 51 due to complications from alcoholism. She herself is an alcoholic and suffers from bipolar disease and ADD. She goes through periods where she can barely take care of herself and get through a day. I just can’t pass judgment on her for that, however disappointing it was when she went back to eating meat.

I like and agree with Jamie’s advice.
 

Tom L.

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@Amytomatojuice I'm sorry this happened. I know lots of folks try out vegetarianism and decide (relatively soon) that it's not for them; sometimes they have another go at it and this time stay with it. But it would make me sad too if a close friend had a turnaround like that.

I admit that non-vegan or non-vegetarian foods can be a concentrated source of certain nutrients. And to most people, they do taste good. I didn't stop eating them because they grossed me out- I found the cost to animals unacceptable. But I had always liked vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, seeds and nuts too- so giving up some foods I had always enjoyed still left me with a lot of tasty, nutritious things to eat.

Your friend appears to be really going overboard with foods of animal origin. Many nutritionists who don't have a problem with either eating meat or going vegan, so long as the diet in question is healthy, might not advise what your friend is doing. I don't know why she's taking that path, or what you should say to her.
 
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Philippe

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I feel devastated- which I know is ridiculous.
I’ve been a strict vegetarian for the last 29 years- my friend 26 years.
She had been a strict vegan for the last 6 years. I’ve admired her so much for it. I have tried going vegan but have struggled. Always went for her for advice. She’s been my best friend for 16 years - she s like a sister. Our ethics are the or so I thought!
She has announced she now eats meat. Not just a bit of chicken now and then but full on meat for every meal! She’s been posting pictures on Instagram of lamb heart, liver, kidneys. She’s been making gelatine sweets. Using cream made from animal fats. Going in about how she wasted her life and health being vegan. Saying how vegetables are toxic!!

it’s ridiculous but I’ve been crying this evening. I feel like I’ve lost my best friend. I feel like we’ve nothing in common.
How on earth could someone do a 360?
I literally don’t know what to say to her. I feel a bit heart broken.
No, it's not ridiculous. If that would happen to me, I guess that friend wouldn't be my best friend anymore, just a "friend"
 

VeganRachel

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Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I have read up a lot about "ex-vegans", and I think many have things in common. What I am saying is not
because I feel superior to others because of my choices. I simply feel that eating animals is cruel and selfish.
That humans can get their nutrition from plants and in today's modern sanitized world, supplement with B12.
Many humans become "vegan" because on the outside they believe in what it stands for. Maybe those who
become vegan feel like an outsider to begin with. However, most new vegans become that because of
health reasons, not because of an ethical commitment to the animals themselves. I feel there is a cohesive
lack of balance in health vegans, although I still admire their choice to be different from the crowd.
Another issue in the past several years is the backlash and anger against vegans. Omnivores do not want
anyone reminding them of their participation in animal suffering and slaughter. They want to believe that they are actually
kind, loving humans, not as animal killers. Even just the word "vegan", or being in a social/ food environment with a vegan can
bring up defensiveness. It is much easier to make a choice to eat the death of animals when someone is not reminding you that you do so. Then you have the obsession with omnivores focusing on the B12, the iron in animal flesh--and the often low amounts of those
in vegans. And in condemning soy as "estrogenic" and therefore it must make men feminine (it does not).
There is a fervid defensiveness about eating animals as natural, nice, and normal. Our entire society and
media celebrate savoring the flavors of dead farm animals and fishes. Males seem to attach their masculinity, virility,
strength, to their ability to eat animals at every meal, and even kill the animal themselves. Therefore they believe,
men who do not eat animals are eating vegetables or tofu, which are weak and feminine. Society like conformists, and
being an omnivore is conforming!. It takes strength and fortitude to be different in a world of conformists who think its'
okay to breed and kill the innocent to eat them. some vegans may not enjoy being different and hearing criticisms against being'
vegan.
I do believe the animal agriculture industry has flamed a lot of this backlash. They profit more when humans do not become vegan
and use compassion toward animals. They pay many trolls to make various comments on social media, video's, influencers, etcetera.
Many "vegans" do not eat healthfully or a balanced diet. There are a ton of vegan processed foods out there. And fresh vegetables
and fruits can get avoided. Although many eat the fake meats, many of them are made with GMO ingredients and tons of fat or salt.
Just because it is "vegans" does not make it a healthy or nutritious choice. Many vegans do not take B12 and monitor themselves to have adequate levels. Even vegetarians eating dairy or eggs can have very low B12 levels (as can many omnivores).
Dr. Klaper has a wonderful video about failed vegans. He believes some were used to the high amounts of saturated fats they were eating,
and their body adapted to it and craves it. Vegan food does not have the same stimulating effect.
There is an obsession in the "carnivore" movement. It has become very popular, with many fans glorifying how amazingly
good they feel, and how their former health problems have dissappeared. Likely before, they were not eating healthfully, were eating an imbalanced diet, were severely allergic to something they were eating, they may have been easily lacking B12 and iron (abundant in animal protein), and so on. In addition, they eat 1 1/2-4 pounds of animal daily yet they are ingesting the jacked up adrenaline and stress hormones of those animals. That acts like a drug and gets them high. And feeding off the death of animals is not a loving spiritual choice. The Carnivores think of themselves and satisfying
their palate. It is a personal and selfish choice. The life of the animal is justified as a sacrifice as providing them with their pounds of flesh. Its' utilitarian, not sentient. Black and white.
But few "carnivores" raise and kill the animals they eat. They conveniently let an anonymous human do the disgusting deed for them.
I am staying in an Airbnb now where the male host was vegan, found he had a B12 deficiency, and now adds fish to his diet.
I admire his ability to become vegan, but he made the choice not to monitor and take B12, so he caused his deficiency. This is an irresponsible choice for anyone. Vegans (and vegetarians) must make taking B12 regularly a priority. Many "ex-vegans" were severely B12 (and even iron) deficient.
So those are my thoughts as to why there are "ex-vegans" and some of them end up as the opposite of vegan. They end up blaming the "diet" instead of taking personal responsibility for their food choices as having been imbalanced, inadequate. The irony is that there are millions of
"ex-omnivores" who were also failed by "their diet". namaste'.
 

silva

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Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I have read up a lot about "ex-vegans", and I think many have things in common. What I am saying is not
because I feel superior to others because of my choices. I simply feel that eating animals is cruel and selfish.
That humans can get their nutrition from plants and in today's modern sanitized world, supplement with B12.
Many humans become "vegan" because on the outside they believe in what it stands for. Maybe those who
become vegan feel like an outsider to begin with. However, most new vegans become that because of
health reasons, not because of an ethical commitment to the animals themselves. I feel there is a cohesive
lack of balance in health vegans, although I still admire their choice to be different from the crowd.
Another issue in the past several years is the backlash and anger against vegans. Omnivores do not want
anyone reminding them of their participation in animal suffering and slaughter. They want to believe that they are actually
kind, loving humans, not as animal killers. Even just the word "vegan", or being in a social/ food environment with a vegan can
bring up defensiveness. It is much easier to make a choice to eat the death of animals when someone is not reminding you that you do so. Then you have the obsession with omnivores focusing on the B12, the iron in animal flesh--and the often low amounts of those
in vegans. And in condemning soy as "estrogenic" and therefore it must make men feminine (it does not).
There is a fervid defensiveness about eating animals as natural, nice, and normal. Our entire society and
media celebrate savoring the flavors of dead farm animals and fishes. Males seem to attach their masculinity, virility,
strength, to their ability to eat animals at every meal, and even kill the animal themselves. Therefore they believe,
men who do not eat animals are eating vegetables or tofu, which are weak and feminine. Society like conformists, and
being an omnivore is conforming!. It takes strength and fortitude to be different in a world of conformists who think its'
okay to breed and kill the innocent to eat them. some vegans may not enjoy being different and hearing criticisms against being'
vegan.
I do believe the animal agriculture industry has flamed a lot of this backlash. They profit more when humans do not become vegan
and use compassion toward animals. They pay many trolls to make various comments on social media, video's, influencers, etcetera.
Many "vegans" do not eat healthfully or a balanced diet. There are a ton of vegan processed foods out there. And fresh vegetables
and fruits can get avoided. Although many eat the fake meats, many of them are made with GMO ingredients and tons of fat or salt.
Just because it is "vegans" does not make it a healthy or nutritious choice. Many vegans do not take B12 and monitor themselves to have adequate levels. Even vegetarians eating dairy or eggs can have very low B12 levels (as can many omnivores).
Dr. Klaper has a wonderful video about failed vegans. He believes some were used to the high amounts of saturated fats they were eating,
and their body adapted to it and craves it. Vegan food does not have the same stimulating effect.
There is an obsession in the "carnivore" movement. It has become very popular, with many fans glorifying how amazingly
good they feel, and how their former health problems have dissappeared. Likely before, they were not eating healthfully, were eating an imbalanced diet, were severely allergic to something they were eating, they may have been easily lacking B12 and iron (abundant in animal protein), and so on. In addition, they eat 1 1/2-4 pounds of animal daily yet they are ingesting the jacked up adrenaline and stress hormones of those animals. That acts like a drug and gets them high. And feeding off the death of animals is not a loving spiritual choice. The Carnivores think of themselves and satisfying
their palate. It is a personal and selfish choice. The life of the animal is justified as a sacrifice as providing them with their pounds of flesh. Its' utilitarian, not sentient. Black and white.
But few "carnivores" raise and kill the animals they eat. They conveniently let an anonymous human do the disgusting deed for them.
I am staying in an Airbnb now where the male host was vegan, found he had a B12 deficiency, and now adds fish to his diet.
I admire his ability to become vegan, but he made the choice not to monitor and take B12, so he caused his deficiency. This is an irresponsible choice for anyone. Vegans (and vegetarians) must make taking B12 regularly a priority. Many "ex-vegans" were severely B12 (and even iron) deficient.
So those are my thoughts as to why there are "ex-vegans" and some of them end up as the opposite of vegan. They end up blaming the "diet" instead of taking personal responsibility for their food choices as having been imbalanced, inadequate. The irony is that there are millions of
"ex-omnivores" who were also failed by "their diet". namaste'.
That's all true, but this case was vegetarian 26 years, and vegan the last 6!
I just can't begin to imagine how anyone could have flesh after all that time. It isn't as if meat tastes better than other foods--it only tastes good when you're used to eating it. I've known lifelong vegetarians who've tried it and they don't like it.
I wish people wouldn't just post and then disappear. I've love to know more!
 
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VeganRachel

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That's all true, but this case was vegetarian 26 years, and vegan the last 6!
I just can't begin to imagine how anyone could have flesh after all that time. It isn't as if meat tastes better than other foods--it only tastes good when you're used to eating it. I've known lifelong vegetarians who've tried it and they don't like it.
I wish people wouldn't just post and then disappear. I've love to know more!
I understand she was a long-term vegan and veg. However I think the whole issue is very psychological.
Even if someone has been doing this a while they can get tired of being the outsider and different, they
may want to fit in with family or a partner, or they may have a nutrition deficiency and believe eating animals
is the answer. Why not ask HER why she changed?. I met a health food store owner whose mom was vegetarian for
over twenty years, and she, her daughter, 26 years. She had a husband who ate animals. She got influenced by
the Weston A. Price group and went back to eating dairy, eggs, and animals. Was she defiecient in some nutrient?
I do not know. But she did at least make a commitment for 26 years.......
 

VeganRachel

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I read a story online about a guy who was vegan or vegetarian for about 26 years and then went back
to eating animals and became a butcher owning his own shop. Thats' like being vegan and becoming a carnivore. He went
in the completely opposite direction. Yet there are animal farmers who go in the opposite direction and
become vegan and start an animal sanctuary......
 

Danielle

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Can't imagine. I went back to being a vegetarian for a while, but I don't think it was worth it.
My reason was it's harder to get my hands on vegan alternatives after moving, but it's not impossible.
Have to be patient and be willing to travel a bit for it. Closest place that would have any of that would be 40 minutes from home.
 

silva

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This is the OP's ONLY post in this forum, April 2021.
Just find this really really curious, that someone would create an account and never respond, or post again!