'Baby Steps' Veganism

AeryFairy

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So one of my (vegan) friends shared this picture on Facebook today:

13528063_10154120398371508_2171759569645244068_o.jpg


It instantly sparked a huge debate, mostly between other vegans, and so I thought I'd post it here to get some more perspectives. The arguments from vegans were in one of two camps: those supporting the idea in the image (that any progress towards veganism is good progress), and those against the idea (that promoting anything except complete veganism, including baby steps, was still supporting the animal industry and was therefore bad).

So, thoughts? :)
 
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I agree with Jack Norris. I think there is a good chance that once the person has managed to go "vegan-except-cheese", they will eventually be able to wave goodbye to the cheese as well.
 
I'm in the camp that some progress is better than no progress. I confess that cheese was the one thing that kept me from going vegan for years (I feel so bad about this a lot when I think about how easily it ended up being to ditch, but it took reaching the right mindset for this to happen). In the end, for me, it's all about reducing, and hopefully eliminating at some point, the commodification of animals and their byproducts.

Rarely in this world is anything black-and-white, and while I personally wish the entire world would go vegan, I know it will take time, possibly generations, before this is even a possibility. In the meantime, I will gently guide anyone who shows an interest by sharing my journey if they are so inclined to listen. I don't sugarcoat the realities of the animal industry, and I will spell out my reasons to those who want to hear them, but I also don't think that discouraging people from trying if they can't be 100% vegan is a good method, either. People are so defensive these days that I think a gentler approach is warranted. Debate, at least in the U.S., isn't welcome these days, as people take disagreement with an opinion as a personal attack. My mother has always said that you get more with sugar than you do with vinegar. I tend to agree.

It took awhile (too long) for me to get to where I am, so I feel as if I really am in no position to judge people who aren't in the same place. I know this debate also gets into the labelling issue, and I will tell people that veganism is more than a food plan and that calling oneself vegan might be frowned upon if you're still using animal products. I always suggest "plant-based" as an option if a person is taking the baby-steps approach. It can be overwhelming to people, especially if their reasons are more health-based than animal-cruelty-based.
 
I also agree, but isn't that why we have "vegetarian"?
I don't understand why people feel a need to use the term vegan. In other forums people get really upset when called out for still eating animal products and insisting on calling themselves vegan
I haven't gone by vegan for the past year as it helps keep me from obsessing.
I think the title of vegan should be reserved for those who have gone the extra mile to keep the lifestyle.
 
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Changed my mind about posting...too tired...but it wouldn't go away so I had to write something! Lol
 
There is another angle to this.

When people state their reasons for not being willing to do something it is often not the real reason, or there are other reasons that they don't want to say in addition to the one that they have given.

When someone says that they would go vegan if it wasn't for cheese, and you reply that they should go vegan except for cheese, then you are calling them on it, and finding out how sincere they are being. They may in fact hesistate, suggesting that other reasons such as the taste of meat or tradition or laziness or social acceptance or whatever else is the real reason behind it.

So by saying you can eat cheese and be a (mostly) vegan, you are closer to getting at what the real reason for eating meat is.
 
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I am in the camp of encouragement and supporting whatever steps a person needs to take towards being vegan. I used to be more militant in the beginning with an all or nothing approach (I went vegan overnight myself), but over time have come to realize that there are many people in different circumstances with experiences that I might not understand or relate to...homeless, in jail, halfway house, disability income, live in an area where it is difficult even to find produce (and yes I have visited such areas), child dependent on anti vegan parents...

I have seen a lot of shaming in the vegan community even between vegans and that really saddens me. Even I have been shamed for living with a partner who is mostly vegetarian but occasionally still eats meat outside the house. I just don't think this is necessary or helpful. We can gently educate or discuss without calling others murderers and rapists. there are still very few of us who were born and raised vegan. I doubt we thought of ourselves as these things.
 
In other forums people get really upset when called out for still eating animal products and insisting on calling themselves vegan

Well, he did not say "Call yourself vegan even if you continue to eat cheese"
I personally am also not a fan of people being "vegan EXCEPT" calling themselvs "VEGAN", but I also prefer if people went vegan except something as a step to real veganism ...
 
They could always buy nut cheeses. Provided they didnt have a nut allergy.
 
They could always buy nut cheeses. Provided they didnt have a nut allergy.
Yes, there are several decent vegan cheeses, but they're not exactly like the dairy ones. Maybe part of the reason is because they don't trigger the release of opiate-like compounds (casomorphines) when digested, like dairy cheese does?
 
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I'm a welfarist, I readily admit. I am not too thrilled about the "vegan except..." label, but people today don't use "vegetarian" as much, it seems. They want to be "vegan". So if calling themselves "vegan except cheese" encourages them to give up eating anumals daily, I'm all for it.
 
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The poster is misleading, imo. I strongly doubt Vegan Outreach really supports anyone eating cheese. I think the point of the poster is to, as Jaime pointed out, challenge people to take the step. I'm not sure this message is a good one as it could cause some confusion about the actual definition of being vegan, but it does make vegans seem more open to beginner struggles that we are usually portrayed. :rolleyes:
 
I want a poster that reads-
Your ham sandwich was from an animal smarter than your toddler
 
Yes, there are several decent vegan cheeses, but they're not exactly like the dairy ones. Maybe part of the reason is because they don't trigger the release of opiate-like compounds (casomorphines) when digested, like dairy cheese does?

I think it is a matter of trying different ones to see which one is best.

I once went to a market and tried this delicious cashew cheese spread.. it had the most wonderful cheesy flavour...

as I have written about a few times in the coffee house I have been trying to track this cheese around for quite a while with no sucess.. sometimes it is at the market but it never has been when I went...
 
I saw a recipe for a Boursin style cheese... I have wanted to make it for ages but dont really have the time.
 
I saw a recipe for a Boursin style cheese... I have wanted to make it for ages but dont really have the time.

I made this one recently, and it was totally awesome:
http://www.vegkitchen.com/recipes/vegan-boursin-style-spread/
Took me all of 5 minutes...

Granted, I increased the amount of garlic to reasonable levels, and left out the margarine, but I was enjoying it very much.
And it was not tofu-ey at all (which was my concern after reading the recipe).
 
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I've made this cashew cream cheese spread several times with great success and shared it at a potluck with the omnis who also loved it. How to Make Soy-free Vegan & Paleo Cream Cheese

I've also done this one but the omnis don't like it quite as much: Sliceable Cashew Cheese [Vegan]

I had been dairy intolerant for years before becoming vegan so avoided cheese and milk with the exception of plain Greek yogurt. That would still cause bloat/slowed digestion but did not cause the cramping gassy pain and dairrhea the other dairy products caused, and at the time I liked that it was high in protein and calcium. When I went full on vegan it was easy for me as it was only a matter of giving up the yogurt, eggs, fish and occasional meat, and byproducts. I was one of those "whole foods" people as an omni so very rarely ate processed byproduct foods (ie cold cereals, breads, sauces, etc). I didn't try commercial vegan cheeses my first two years vegan as I wanted to move away from traditional omni types of foods. Ditto for vegan "meats", but I did drink plant milks. I grew to love nutritional yeast but at first didn't understand what the excitement was about. I made all my own bread and even vegan mayonnaise (nut based).

I still don't care a lot for the vegan commercial cheeses. Daiya is OK, but my stomach reacts badly to it. So I will have it on pizza (more for my partners sake as he likes it) a few times a year. Chao cheese absolutely makes me ill with cramps, gas pains etc. Both Tofutti and Daiya cream cheese and sour cream just taste too rubbery for me. But I have heard there are better and better vegan cheeses on the market. Miyokos supposedly makes some, and Kite Hill. Neither of those are available in my area, but if they were I would try them if for no other reason than to encourage omnis or otherwise vegan cheese lovers to try them. I LOVE a local company called Punk Rawk Labs cashew cheese, but at $13 for a small square with about four servings, its not worth it when I can make my own.

My strategy is usually to encourage cheese "addicts" to try other ways to appreciate food that can do similar things as cheese instead of the cheese substitutes. For example, hummus on pizza, flatbread, or in pasta, or grilled avocado/tomato sandwiches, or a good enchilada sauce recipe. But I understand some people don't want the change to be too "radical" right off the bat. I worry that the substitute vegan cheeses, yogurts, meats, etc will only persuade people to go back to "the real thing" as it can not live up to the taste of what they are used to (though my partner LOVES Bocca burgers and Field Roast sausages, go figure). Unless their reason for change is strongly ethical. I feel that a strong ethical stance can overcome taste issues. But maybe I am being biased based on my own experience? I didn't have cravings for anything nonvegan for a very long time, except a short intense craving for eggs when I was very underweight in my ED and about two years vegan, and I found other ways to satisfy that (tofu scrambles, chickpea flour omelets, chickpeas and potatoes etc). However, lately for some odd reason I have been craving Greek yogurt again and it really disturbs me. I have been making batches of homemade vegan almond/coconut yogurt and having semi success with it but have been frustrated by the lack of thickness to it even with adding tapioca starch. I do however, like the sourish, nonsugar, plainness of it which is hard to find in commercial vegan yogurts. Ironically this seems to have triggered the sudden cravings for Greek yogurt, to the point of almost tasting and smelling it. And has made me revisit my ethics and go over the arguments in my head as to why it is totally unnecessary to have it. I never thought after six years I would be wrestling with this in my head. I RARELY have cravings for animal food. Its hard for me to even talk about with other vegans due to the shaming. But I still worry about meeting my calcium and protein and b12 needs etc. I feel I have to work hard at it, but I also tend to be very careful about calories, sticking to mostly whole foods etc, and ironically this mindset is probably making things worse for me. Its probably not even really about the food. IDK.
 
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Thanks Naturebound and AndyT :) I will have to try making those at some point :) .
 
I made this one recently, and it was totally awesome:
http://www.vegkitchen.com/recipes/vegan-boursin-style-spread/
Took me all of 5 minutes...

Granted, I increased the amount of garlic to reasonable levels, and left out the margarine, but I was enjoying it very much.
And it was not tofu-ey at all (which was my concern after reading the recipe).
That sounds really good! I've found miso is great in cashew spreads. I would add a dollop of Just Mayo or a tablespoon of melted refined coconut oil if I wanted it thicker.