I'm not a vegan, and to my understanding, a large number of vegans avoid animal-based foods and products in order to protest or not give support to industries that exploit or inhumanely treat animals. However, many industrial processes involve the use of animal products (ex. the metalworking and drilling industries use lubricants that contain animal fats). Do some people take care to avoid those products that indirectly rely on animal products? What are your thoughts and opinions on the use of animal products in industrial processes?
Most vegans understand that it is impossible to completely avoid animal products in all cases. However, we are committed to not using them for food, apparel, entertainment and in any other ways possible. Hopefully, as vegans take over the world 
, the availability of cheap animal products will diminish, making their use less attractive, and creating markets for substitutes throughout all kinds of industries.
, the availability of cheap animal products will diminish, making their use less attractive, and creating markets for substitutes throughout all kinds of industries.
Lou
Forum Legend
@raiono
Your observation is often made by people who seek to diminish veganism by pointing out some kind of falacy, inconsistency, or other issues.
There are countless specific and general rebuttals. Poppy has already provided a great one. You stated your observation as a question and if I thought you were actually curious about an answer or legitimately pointing out an issue I would feel more inclined to give you an answer or respond in a more specific way.
The Vegan Society's definition of veganism states that veganism is "A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
Please notice the words I put in bold. It doesn't say "exclude all forms". That would be impossible. and it doesn't say "at all costs". Just "possible and practicable".
Your observation is often made by people who seek to diminish veganism by pointing out some kind of falacy, inconsistency, or other issues.
There are countless specific and general rebuttals. Poppy has already provided a great one. You stated your observation as a question and if I thought you were actually curious about an answer or legitimately pointing out an issue I would feel more inclined to give you an answer or respond in a more specific way.
The Vegan Society's definition of veganism states that veganism is "A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
Please notice the words I put in bold. It doesn't say "exclude all forms". That would be impossible. and it doesn't say "at all costs". Just "possible and practicable".
I don't intend to diminish veganism, the question was prompted because I recently worked at a company that manufactures various chemical additives, and found that one of the commonly used chemicals was animal fat. I wondered whether people were aware of the use of animal byproducts in subtle ways.
Based on the response here and on other forums, it seems that one common opinion is that many vegans are aware that many common items are connected to animal products in some way, but since the use/consumption of these products is inevitable, it is usually not worth the time and energy to try and avoid them. Is there a general consensus among vegans about where you draw the line of "avoidable vs. unavoidable" animal products?
There's rarely a consensus among any group of people about anything these days, but you'll find that most vegans recognize that by eliminating animal products from our diets, attire and the other products and entertainment we choose to purchase, we can do enormous good and save billions of animals.
Can you give some specific examples in the " other products" category? I'm having trouble imagining what those might be.
Lou
Forum Legend
I would guess (without any real evidence), that 90% of vegans agree on things 90% of the time. So yeah, i think that is a consensus.
Again falling back on the definition, the word "intent" is there. and the words "possible and practicable" are somewhat subjective. So there is a lot of room for personal discretion.
I heard somewhere that there are animal products used in tires. I'm not even sure that is true but I did not take the time to research it - and I did not take the time to try and find vegan tires. IMHO, shopping for vegan tires just doesn't seem to be a good use of my time. And I'm pretty sure that most vegans would agree.
In a similar vein, I know that many types of glue that are used in running shoes are from animal products. And I choose to research that and look for vegan running shoes. There are running shoes that don't use leather but most of the manufacturers aren't even sure of the source of their glues and resins. I try to buy shoes from the best sources I can but I'm also not going to worry about it too much.
There is also an element of diminishing returns. At some point, it doesn't make sense to put a lot of effort to avoid a little bit of animal product. Most vegans find a point on that line that they are comfortable with.
Lou
Forum Legend
I think it's just a catch-all. Just in case someone comes up with something we hadn't thought of.
But other products could include tires, furniture, floor coverings, etc.
David3
Forum Legend
The vast majority of modern adhesives are synthetic. Modern synthetic adhesives, such as epoxy, cyanoacrylate, silicone, polyurethane, and acrylic, are far superior to early adhesives made with animal collagen, dairy casein, plant starches, and tree sap. Synthetic adhesives are made by chemically-reacting base materials derived from petroleum and natural gas - example: Polyurethane - Wikipedia
It is commonly believed that "white glue" (such as Elmer's glue) is made from animal material. The cartoon-drawing of a cow on the Elmer's glue bottle is perceived as proof of this. However, it's not true. Common white glue is polyvinyl acetate ( Polyvinyl acetate - Wikipedia ), a synthetic adhesive made by the polymerization of vinyl acetate, a monomer made from ethylene (derived from natural gas) and acetic acid (derived from petroleum-synthesized methanol, or from fermentation of plant sugars).
Animal-content adhesives still have limited use in certain low-quality applications, such as binding telephone books and junk mail. Regular books, however, are glued together with synthetic adhesives: Bookbinding Adhesives . Telephone books, of course, have largely been made obsolete by the internet.
Very small amounts of animal material are used in the processing of some plastics. For example, calcium stearate (made with stearic acid, which has historically been made from beef tallow: Stearic acid - Wikipedia) can be added to plastics as an acid neutralizer, processing lubricant, and release agent. The amount of added animal material is tiny; typically less than 1000 ppm, or 0.1%, of stearate: Calcium stearate - Wikipedia . Even this is being phased out for certain products, due to concerns over bovine spongiform encephalopathy ("mad cow disease"): https://www.nordsonmedical.com/newsletter/animal-free.htm .
Lots more information is available on this, although the topic is mostly academic, since modern adhesives (including hardware store glues) are all synthetic.
If you are interested in helping to develop alternatives to other animal products, you might pursue a career in chemistry, biology, or food science.
It is commonly believed that "white glue" (such as Elmer's glue) is made from animal material. The cartoon-drawing of a cow on the Elmer's glue bottle is perceived as proof of this. However, it's not true. Common white glue is polyvinyl acetate ( Polyvinyl acetate - Wikipedia ), a synthetic adhesive made by the polymerization of vinyl acetate, a monomer made from ethylene (derived from natural gas) and acetic acid (derived from petroleum-synthesized methanol, or from fermentation of plant sugars).
Animal-content adhesives still have limited use in certain low-quality applications, such as binding telephone books and junk mail. Regular books, however, are glued together with synthetic adhesives: Bookbinding Adhesives . Telephone books, of course, have largely been made obsolete by the internet.
Very small amounts of animal material are used in the processing of some plastics. For example, calcium stearate (made with stearic acid, which has historically been made from beef tallow: Stearic acid - Wikipedia) can be added to plastics as an acid neutralizer, processing lubricant, and release agent. The amount of added animal material is tiny; typically less than 1000 ppm, or 0.1%, of stearate: Calcium stearate - Wikipedia . Even this is being phased out for certain products, due to concerns over bovine spongiform encephalopathy ("mad cow disease"): https://www.nordsonmedical.com/newsletter/animal-free.htm .
Lots more information is available on this, although the topic is mostly academic, since modern adhesives (including hardware store glues) are all synthetic.
If you are interested in helping to develop alternatives to other animal products, you might pursue a career in chemistry, biology, or food science.
David3
Forum Legend
Car tires are made from synthetic rubber, natural rubber (from latex-containing plants), cloth, wire, carbon black (made from petroleum), and a small percentage of other materials: Tire - Wikipedia
Certain high-end bicycle tires contain silk filaments (from silkworms). Aside from this, their principal materials are similar to those of car tires.
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Certain high-end bicycle tires contain silk filaments (from silkworms). Aside from this, their principal materials are similar to those of car tires.
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David3
Forum Legend
Except for use in certain, "historic-type" specialty shoes, animal-derived glues are rarely used to make shoes. The modern hot-melt adhesives (polyester, polyamide, polyurethane, EVA, and others) are affordable, faster to apply, quicker to cure, and can be custom-formulated with a wide range of mechanical properties. The old hide glues, made from animal collagen, just can't measure up.
To quote PETA:
"The use of animal ingredients in industrial glues is increasingly uncommon since a large variety of synthetic adhesives now exist, each with different applications. These adhesives are often chosen over animal based glues because they can be produced at a constant rate and to meet specific manufacturing standards. "
Link: https://www.vegankicks.com/understanding-vegan-shoe-glues/
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Lou
Forum Legend
But then there is this quote from your sited article.
Finding a vegan shoe is often a challenge because of the glue. It’s straightforward enough identifying shoes that are made out of leather or wool. If the eye test doesn’t work, most websites will state whether it’s real leather or not. But even when you ask, many companies don’t know what the glues are made from.
I've asked both Brooks and New Balance and they won't guarantee that their glues are not from animals.
Lou
Forum Legend
Many tires are not vegan because they are made with stearic acid, which can be derived from animal products. But it doesn’t have to be and there are some tire manufacturers who don’t use animal-based stearic acid. The most well-known brand that doesn’t use animal-derived products to make its tires is Michelin. The manufacturer offers a large range of tire varieties, all of which are vegan.
Lou
Forum Legend
Speaking only for myself, not much " anxiety or apprehension about not knowing whether or not a something might have been made using animal products".
although If i do buy something and take it home only to discover it is not vegan - I do give myself a good kick in the ***.
One of the maxims I live by is Don't Sweat The Small Stuff.
How much time i spend researching an item depends on how much it cost, how long do i expect it to last, and how familiar I am with the item.
When i was just becoming vegan I spent an inordinate amount of time in the bread aisle looking for ingredients like milk and/or butter. Now I barely look at the ingredients.
Thanks to google and some of the cruetly free databases it's pretty easy to do the research on vegan items. Lots of times, I can find a long list of vegan items but have more trouble finding something that meets my other criteria.
David3
Forum Legend
I meant things like cosmetics and personal hygiene products, home furnishings and decor (we avoid feather pillows and wool rugs), gifts we give, cleaning and household products we buy and even gardening supplies.
David3
Forum Legend
Is it reasonable to say that for you personally, 0.1% of a chemical that may or may not be sourced from animals is a small enough amount for you to consider that product "vegan" ? And that for another person that might not be the case?
