Animal Lives Matter

[Lou]

First off, I broach this topic with great trepidation. I'm very tempted to only play the reporter and not interject my own opinion but I think I can express myself with enough sensitivity to the issue that I won't get into too much trouble.

And if this topic can't be discussed here - where can it be discussed?

BTW, as a 49er fan, I found myself supporting Kapernick and defending his actions back when they were happening and it wasn't so "popular" to do so. Although I don't think his protest was strategically sound, I still explained to lots of other fans that the protest had nothing to do with the armed forces and the flag and was only a protest against black men being killed by white cops.

As a vegan, I can "connect the dots" between animal lives matter and Black Lives Matter. I found myself wondering if PETA was going to start an Animal Lives Matter campaign. I wouldn't put it past them but I think it would be inadvisable. Those of you who are old enough or have been vegan long enough might recall the controversy when a holocaust survivor, called the slaughter of animals a Holocaust. (1) And he was just repeating the same things Issac Isaac Bashevis Singer expressed when he said, “For the animals, [life] is an eternal Treblinka.”

And PETA caught so much **** for their "Holocaust on Your Plate" exhibition. I'm not sure they are ready to go wade into those waters again. (2).

So anyway, a "vegan influencer", Laura Rebecca Perez, "connected the dots" on her instagram. (3) and she got pretty slammed for it. Personally I feel like she made some good really good points. but on the other, maybe the timing could have been better. (4)

In defense of Laura, I'd like to use the words of Alex Hershaft, Holocaust survivor, and animal rights activist.

"The negative reaction is largely due to people's mistaken perception that the comparison values their lives equally with those of pigs and cows. Nothing could be farther from the truth. What we are doing is pointing to the commonality and pervasiveness of the oppressive mindset, which enables human beings to perpetrate unspeakable atrocities on other living beings, whether they be Jews, Bosnians, Tutsis, or animals. It's the mindset that allowed German and Polish neighbors of extermination camps to go on with their lives, just as we continue to subsidize the oppression of animals at the supermarket checkout counter."​

Oh!! I just discovered that PETA has asked us not to use the term All Lives Matter. I should have read that first.

Here is their viewpoint.
Please, resist detracting from the thrust of these demonstrations with an “all lives matter” perspective.
The idea comes from a compassionate heart—and the idea is true—but this phrase has been weaponized to delegitimize the Black Lives Matter movement. (5)

Animal Lives Matter is also the name of an Animal Rescue, a pet relocation center, and an ASPCA fundraising campaign. I wonder what they are going to do now.

-------------------------------

1 - Pigs, the Holocaust and Isaac Bashevis Singer
2 - Animal rights and the Holocaust - Wikipedia
3 - Influencer slammed for comparing Black Lives Matter to veganism
4 -

5 - Why Vegans Should Support the 'Black Lives Matter' Movement | PETA

 

[Second Summer]

I suppose "Animal Lives Matter" is simply a bad response to "Black Lives Matter" - in that context it's a distraction from the struggle against discrimination against black people and for police force reform, a bit like "All Lives Matter". Outside of that context it should be OK to use, at least with appropriate disclaimers etc?

Well, I'm just a white European dude with very limited insights into that whole minefield of US race relations ...

 

[Raven]

Those of you who are old enough or have been vegan long enough might recall the controversy when a holocaust survivor, called the slaughter of animals a Holocaust. (1) And he was just repeating the same things Issac Isaac Bashevis Singer expressed when he said, “For the animals, [life] is an eternal Treblinka.”

I used that quote in an essay once.

 

[David3]

I'm a white American dude, and my insights are also very limited. I grew up, studied, and now work in Orange County, California. My co-students and co-workers were/are Latino and Asian. In my entire career, I've only worked with three African-Americans.
.

 

[Urban Gardener]

I suppose "Animal Lives Matter" is simply a bad response to "Black Lives Matter" - in that context it's a distraction from the struggle against discrimination against black people and for police force reform, a bit like "All Lives Matter". Outside of that context it should be OK to use, at least with appropriate disclaimers etc?

Well, I'm just a white European dude with very limited insights into that whole minefield of US race relations ...

So there is a concept called, "total liberation." The idea is that the struggle for human rights and for animal rights are intertwined. What is good for animals is also good for people. Animal liberation + human liberation. Total liberation.

If you look that up, you'll find related groups and ideas.

This is the first time I've heard of Animal Lives Matter, but the name bothers me. It shares an acronym with All Lives Matter. It's a distraction from Black Lives Matter. But it's worse. Historically, black people and other stigmatized groups have been equated with animals, the intent being completely derogatory. So if you replace "black," with, "animal," it can be seen as a reference to that history, and arguably voicing support for it.

So without digging much deeper into Animal Lives Matter, I think that name or phrase comes with a lot of issues. (Maybe that was intentional? To provoke people?) There are other options that aren't as open to misinterpretation.

 

[beancounter]

Yes, of course animal lives matter. All lives matter. The life of everything that exists matters.

 

[Lou]

I think the phrase Animal Lives Matter must predate Black Lives Matter. I can't see how the ASPCA or a pet relocation service would purposely choose a controversial name.

In an of itself, Animal Lives Matter or even the phrase All Lives Matter is obvously a truism. However the phrase All Lives Matter has been co-opted by the white supremacists to minimize or distract from the Black Lives Matter movement. And I sort of feel that Animal Lives Matter may be collateral damage.

But it's worse. Historically, black people and other stigmatized groups have been equated with animals, the intent being completely derogatory.

Yes, but I kind of see this as not actually derogatory. Just an example of how White Supremacists operate. Whether its Jews in cattle cars or asylum seekers in cages - its people being treated like animals. But let's take a step back and recall that EVEN animals should not be treated that way.

I remember at the last Women's March I attended there was a chant, "Women's Rights are Human Rights". I keep thinking we need a chant of something like that. Animal rights are _________??? Something along the lines of the Total Liberation philosophy.

I also see sort of a connecting the dots or maybe even a blurring of the lines moment here. Just like Covid19 hits the poor and the non-white communities that hardest, the livestock industry impacts those groups as well. I thought Laura Perez made some good points. For example that CAFOs are predominately locate in low-income areas where the neighbors impacted can't afford to put up much of a fight. Or how meat processing plants exploit their workers who are predominately people of color.

Covid19 has not created social injustice - it just exposed it. Police brutality is a symptom of racism and social injustice. I kind of feel that animals are also victims of injustice - and its all part of the same thing.

 

[beancounter]

I think the phrase Animal Lives Matter must predate Black Lives Matter. I can't see how the ASPCA or a pet relocation service would purposely choose a controversial name.

In an of itself, Animal Lives Matter or even the phrase All Lives Matter is obviously a truism. However the phrase All Lives Matter has been co-opted by the white supremacists to minimize or distract from the Black Lives Matter movement. And I sort of feel that Animal Lives Matter may be collateral damage.

It wasn't co-opted by white Supremacist. The world "All" is is all inclusive. Simply by it's dictionary definition, it can't be racist.

Calling "all" a racist term is just a narrative of the extreme left who have a good understanding of George Orwell's "1984"...

 

[Urban Gardener]

I think the phrase Animal Lives Matter must predate Black Lives Matter. I can't see how the ASPCA or a pet relocation service would purposely choose a controversial name.

In an of itself, Animal Lives Matter or even the phrase All Lives Matter is obvously a truism. However the phrase All Lives Matter has been co-opted by the white supremacists to minimize or distract from the Black Lives Matter movement. And I sort of feel that Animal Lives Matter may be collateral damage.



Yes, but I kind of see this as not actually derogatory. Just an example of how White Supremacists operate. Whether its Jews in cattle cars or asylum seekers in cages - its people being treated like animals. But let's take a step back and recall that EVEN animals should not be treated that way.

I remember at the last Women's March I attended there was a chant, "Women's Rights are Human Rights". I keep thinking we need a chant of something like that. Animal rights are _________??? Something along the lines of the Total Liberation philosophy.

I also see sort of a connecting the dots or maybe even a blurring of the lines moment here. Just like Covid19 hits the poor and the non-white communities that hardest, the livestock industry impacts those groups as well. I thought Laura Perez made some good points. For example that CAFOs are predominately locate in low-income areas where the neighbors impacted can't afford to put up much of a fight. Or how meat processing plants exploit their workers who are predominately people of color.

Covid19 has not created social injustice - it just exposed it. Police brutality is a symptom of racism and social injustice. I kind of feel that animals are also victims of injustice - and its all part of the same thing.

Very interesting post! I agree with some of it and disagree with other parts. I think that COVID exacerbated injustice - it caused additional hardships for the people most affected by it, disproportionately minorities and people with lower incomes. It spread injustice, causing it to take on new forms.

I was just thinking about how animals bear the brunt of dysfunction in human society. And how that can, in turn, be appropriated to support a prejudiced way of thinking.

There is a lot of yucky coded language around rescuing pets. Homeless pets, neglected pets, pets who people had to part ways with. Again and again, the anger and judgment are only directed at the previous owner and there is little mention of the bigger picture. "We got this animal away from THOSE people and now we're giving her/him a better life."

But the reasons animals end up in those situations are tied to injustices in human society - housing insecurity, inadequate education, poverty, lack of access to medical care, income disparities, etc. Yes, sometimes people intentionally abuse animals. But a lot of animals in shelters got there because of a hardship that the owner was dealing with or just misinformation (not knowing how to prevent unwanted litters, for example). If you recognize and address the underlying issues, there will be fewer pets suffering and in need of homes.

It might be time for Animal Lives Matter to consider a name change. I think the issue is that it can be misconstrued, and it can cause confusion. That can happen with any name.

Separately, we need to figure out a way to express that animal rights and human rights go together while making it clear that we're not calling people animals in a derogatory way, or the other way around.

 

[PTree15]

It wasn't co-opted by white Supremacist. The world "All" is is all inclusive. Simply by it's dictionary definition, it can't be racist.

Calling "all" a racist term is just a narrative of the extreme left who have a good understanding of George Orwell's "1984"...

Saying all lives matter as a response to black lives matter takes away the focus on the issues the BLM movement is trying to raise. It dismisses racism and the real issues people of color face every day and makes it about white people. White lives have always mattered in the U.S., but blacks lives haven't.

 

[Val]

I used that quote in an essay once.

We have a similar expression, but we say: "For the animals [a.k.a. the animals "meant for food"], life is an eternal Oświęzim" (meaning Auschwitz).

 

[Jamie in Chile]

Similar to Indian Summer, I think using "animal lives matter" in response to "black lives matter" is not good. I think usually the phrase "animal lives matter" at least at this particular point in history might be avoided altogether as well. There is nothing wrong with it strictly speaking, but it isn't strategic and could cause offence to African Americans or people of colour or minorities elsewhere.

Yeah, you wouldn't put it past PETA to run Animal Lives Matter billboards or something.

I am not aware of the groups with the name Animal Lives Matter. One thing they could do is publically reach out to black vegans and other prominent African Americans (community leaders, intellectuals etc) asking for advice about whether they should name their name and then do so if the majority say yes. The chances are the majority of them would reply and so it's not an issue and then they would have this written record if criticised for the name that the reason they decide to continue the use the name was after taking this advice from these people. Either way, it would get them in the news if done cleverly and there's nothing wrong with clever PR if it helps animals. Of course, during this whole public process they wouldn't promote veganism or animal rights whatsoever, just show support for the struggle for racial equality while getting their message out there.

Any attempts to link the current situation to animal rights I think needs to come from African American vegans and animal activists and not from white vegans.

 

[Urban Gardener]

Any attempts to link the current situation to animal rights I think needs to come from African American vegans and animal activists and not from white vegans.

I agree with this. We should defer to African-American vegans and animal rights activists on this topic.

 

[Lou]

Ahhh, if only it was so easy

_________

 

[Lou]

As I said right off at the beginning, I had some trepidation about my views.
I think all the replies have been really thoughtful comments.
You guys are the best!

 

[Andy_T]

Some food for thought:

Stop Comparing Black Lives Matter to Animal Rights

I can’t believe I have to say this

medium.com

Using this time and the plight of black people to advocate for animal lives by drawing comparisons comes across, at the very least, as incredibly tone-deaf and, at worst, as outright racist and clueless, both attributes often associated with White vegans.

 

[Hog]

I have been accused of being racist and sexist so many times that I lost count decades ago. I get acused of being a ***** democrat. I get acused of being a ***** republican. I have been accused of just about everything.

I am bored with all unoriginal accusations. I frequently suspect that the acusations are a cheap power play and nothing more. We now live in a tyranny of political correctness.

My younger son can be a real pain in the rear end. At least, he is original. His middle school teacher told the students to get two lines. The teacher told everybody to divide up into a boys' line and a girls' line. My son decided to get in the girls' line. The teacher told my son to get in the girls line. The teacher threatened to get him suspended.

My son said, "Did you just assume my gender? Go ahead, suspend me." He never got punished.

My family lives a very modest lifestyle. Thus, we have a fair amount of money in the stock market. So we are not poor.

My son decided to bring a sign to school that said the school district discriminates against poor people. So I was called into the principal's office again. I walked in the office as a very angry dad.

I said, "Why do we have a cop, a principal, and a few teachers against one little boy? This is not fair." They claimed that the sign caused a riot and he was not allowed to bring it to school again.

I said that if a teacher can call Donald Trump a racist pig during instructional time, then my son should be able to express his political views during non-instructional time. I later made one short phone call to the district office. Then they immediately figured out a way to let my son bring his sign to school.

I am not saying that the principal and teachers were bad people. I am not saying that my son is an enlightened angel. I am saying that the freedom of speech is the foundation of the freedom of thought. All other rights are meaningless without the freedom of speech.

I will now make an unpopular statement. White people are not the only racist people in the United States. Men discriminate against women. Women discriminate against men.

The most oppressed individuals are the ones without the freedom of speech. They take special education classes. They live in institutions. They live in factory farms.

 

[Lou]

The most oppressed individuals are the ones without the freedom of speech. They take special education classes. They live in institutions. They live in factory farms.

.... and in forests, fields, and streams.....

Standing up (or kneeling - as the case may be) to take a stand against injustices is what Black Lives Matter is all about. Judging by our track records it hasn't been enough. But this feels different to me. Maybe this time.

I don't know why but your last sentence reminded me of this

I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues.​

 

[Hog]

I fear that I tend speak up for discrimination against others only when it is safe for me.

I recall going to work and seeing all the signs on walls that contained messages against sexism, racism, and whateverism. The signs looked like lip service and PR. I privately informed a select few teachers of my belief that discrimination runs rampent in the district.

Here is an example.

Educating kids in special education is expensive. Students in special education with severe disabilities may stay in high school for as long as 8 years. Thus, the district feels intense financial pressure to get rid of these kids ASAP.

I noticed that disabled kids with undocumented working parents were the one most likely to graduate in 4 years. The parents are afraid of standing up for their kids because they do not want to get kicked out of the country. Once the kids graduate, they have no place to go for services because they are undocumented.

According to the ACLU, "All kids living in the United States have the right to a free public education. And the Constitution requires that all kids be given equal educational opportunity no matter what their race, ethnic background, religion, or sex, or whether they are rich or poor, citizen or non-citizen."

Thus, the district's behavior was discriminatory and unconstitutional. But, nobody seemed to want to stand up for these students. I took a stand for one student and got my a$$ chewed out. I thought, "Gosh I should shut up or I will pi$$ off my bosses."

======

I personally believe that Lou made a gutsy move by starting this thread. I also liked the thoughful responses.

When you say "Black lives matter", you affirm that my black wife matters.

Thank You!

 

[Jamie in Chile]

Some food for thought:

Stop Comparing Black Lives Matter to Animal Rights

I can’t believe I have to say this

medium.com

Using this time and the plight of black people to advocate for animal lives by drawing comparisons comes across, at the very least, as incredibly tone-deaf and, at worst, as outright racist and clueless, both attributes often associated with White vegans.

This is a slightly disingenous article in a way because the author can only cite some minor organizations and an influencer that I've never heard of. So basically 3 vegan/ animal rights organizations/influencers out of hundreds probably in the world. And none of the major ones.

It's worth highlighting that the majority of vegan organizations including most or all of the major ones are not doing this kind of thing.