Abuse,intimidation,death threats-Backlash-Former vegans

Lou

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I found the content of this article upsetting (to say the least). However it is both well written, well researched, and appears to be unbiased. All things that I have come to expect from the Guardian. Also I think we can lean into the unbiased attribute a bit because in the past the Guardian has been clearly pro-animal rights. (1)

Although some of the examples might be outliers, I don't think they are that unusual. I've seen the shaming aspect myself in media reporting.

One thing that Other people tend to do is lump vegans all in a group. But as we all know (all too well), that vegans come in all shapes and sizes. Still it disappoints me that Some Vegans are so insensitive (or nutty).

The knee jerk response is that these "former vegans" ought to shut up and keep their head down. But they didn't know they were going to quit veganism when they started promoting it. In fact, some vegans think is a responsibility for All vegans do do some promotion. And of course promoting veganism while not being vegan is hypocritical

I actually didn't know about any of these people reported in the article. but then I'm not on FaceBook, Instagram and Twitter.

However I do remember the story about Natalie Portman, one of my favorite vegan celebrities. She has been shopping in a mall with her children while she was pregnant. She went by one of those cookie stores and couldn't resist getting a cookie. Of course someone saw it and reported it. The public outcry was disproportionate. You'd think she bit the head off a chicken. (2)

1. The Guardian view on animal welfare: keep it up | Editorial

2. Pregnant Natalie Portman Abandons Veganism, Surrenders to Cookie and Cake Cravings
 
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silva

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I found the content of this article upsetting (to say the least). However it is both well written, well researched, and appears to be unbiased. All things that I have come to expect from the Guardian. Also I think we can lean into the unbiased attribute a bit because in the past the Guardian has been clearly pro-animal rights. (1)

Although some of the examples might be outliers, I don't think they are that unusual. I've seen the shaming aspect myself in media reporting.

One thing that Other people tend to do is lump vegans all in a group. But as we all know (all too well), that vegans come in all shapes and sizes. Still it disappoints me that Some Vegans are so insensitive (or nutty).

The knee jerk response is that these "former vegans" ought to shut up and keep their head down. But they didn't know they were going to quit veganism when they started promoting it. In fact, some vegans think is a responsibility for All vegans do do some promotion. And of course promoting veganism while not being vegan is hypocritical

I actually didn't know about any of these people reported in the article. but then I'm not on FaceBook, Instagram and Twitter.

However I do remember the story about Natalie Portman, one of my favorite vegan celebrities. She has been shopping in a mall with her children while she was pregnant. She went by one of those cookie stores and couldn't resist getting a cookie. Of course someone saw it and reported it. The public outcry was disproportionate. You'd think she bit the head off a chicken. (2)

1. The Guardian view on animal welfare: keep it up | Editorial

2. Pregnant Natalie Portman Abandons Veganism, Surrenders to Cookie and Cake Cravings
For the most part, it's only a thing to be outraged by vegans going off because so many people don't want to think it's a healthy or obtainable. Vegans get angry because they know this, and they realize these former vegans are just so much full of crapp.
It's one thing to be honest and admit you failed, but so many place blame on the diet for failing their health.
Portman was totally honest about her pregnancy afaik. If plant based foods were the norm she more than likely would not have craved other foods. Seriously, did she pass by vegan bakeries till she found one that had dairy and egg? I truly doubt it

I just get upset by those that give veganism a bad name to cover their own failures, I do wish those would just drift away
 

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For the most part, it's only a thing to be outraged by vegans going off because so many people don't want to think it's a healthy or obtainable. Vegans get angry because they know this, and they realize these former vegans are just so much full of crapp.
It's one thing to be honest and admit you failed, but so many place blame on the diet for failing their health.
Portman was totally honest about her pregnancy afaik. If plant based foods were the norm she more than likely would not have craved other foods. Seriously, did she pass by vegan bakeries till she found one that had dairy and egg? I truly doubt it

I just get upset by those that give veganism a bad name to cover their own failures, I do wish those would just drift away
it's probably more about convenience than a craving. vegan cookies are awesome.
not every place has a vegan bakery but you can get vegan cookies from the grocery stores, even here in Mississippi.
 
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Lou

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it's probably more about convenience than a craving. vegan cookies are awesome.
not every place has a vegan bakery but you can get vegan cookies from the grocery stores, even here in Mississippi.
my guess it was a craving. combined with .... I think she was PG at the time., and I think she had her kids with her.
Plus this was a while ago. I think even now it would be difficult to find a vegan cookie in a mall. I don't think Mrs Fields makes them. Hey we should petition Mrs. Fields.
 
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I think this article is a hit piece.

Similar to articles that try to make the general public think all vegans are early 20 something direct action activists sabotaging businesses.

I've seen ex-vegans lose friends and have harsh things said to them ( if they post in vegan spaces ), but never other things.
 
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I think this article is a hit piece.

Similar to articles that try to make the general public think all vegans are early 20 something direct action activists sabotaging businesses.

I've seen ex-vegans lose friends and have harsh things said to them ( if they post in vegan spaces ), but never other things.
I don't think its a hit piece.

My newsreader looks for news about vegans. The Guardian pops up more often than most mainstream news sources. Their articles are always fair and positive.
 
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silva

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I don't think its a hit piece.

My newsreader looks for news about vegans. The Guardian pops up more often than most mainstream news sources. Their articles are always fair and positive.
It kinda is a hit piece in that there are extreme reactions to people leaving a base of all kinds. Vegan influencers turning against vegans are far from an anomaly. Political persuasions, religious persuasions, you name it, all those who chose to lead in a polarizing viewpoint and then turn against it will find themselves targets.
It's far from limited to vegans
 
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It kinda is a hit piece in that there are extreme reactions to people leaving a base of all kinds. Vegan influencers turning against vegans are far from an anomaly. Political persuasions, religious persuasions, you name it, all those who chose to lead in a polarizing viewpoint and then turn against it will find themselves targets.
It's far from limited to vegans
That's that it happens in other areas as well. but I don't think it should be ignored in the vegan sphere. It doesn't get ignored in the other arenas - and I think it needs to be covered and considered.

As I said when I created this thread I don't like the content. The guardian, IMHO, is a good source of info. for a mainstream press outlet they cover veganism on a regular basis in a positive light.

I'm not a big consumer of social media but I myself have witnessed shaming. but actually I have not witnessed anything stronger. However the author provides examples.

On further consideration, the headline is over the top. in defense of the article, most authors don't write the headline - the editor does. and they do use headlines to attract readers.
 

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For the most part, it's only a thing to be outraged by vegans going off because so many people don't want to think it's a healthy or obtainable. Vegans get angry because they know this, and they realize these former vegans are just so much full of crapp.
It's one thing to be honest and admit you failed, but so many place blame on the diet for failing their health.
Portman was totally honest about her pregnancy afaik. If plant based foods were the norm she more than likely would not have craved other foods. Seriously, did she pass by vegan bakeries till she found one that had dairy and egg? I truly doubt it

I just get upset by those that give veganism a bad name to cover their own failures, I do wish those would just drift away
Absolutely. Most "failures" happen because of several reasons. One is that the human was not eating healthfully, often consuming
an imbalanced diet, relying on processed foods, not eating enough, not consuming a variety of whole plant foods, not Taking B12.
another is that the human was doing vegan because they only focused on health, rather than the whole picture (animal rights, environment--
so they never bonded with veganism to begin with, they only related to it as "food"). And some humans have trouble being different, not fitting
in to the crowd, standing out amongst friends, family, and co-workers. A small percentage of humans fail because their intestines are so
saturated with years of eating heavy animal saturated fats, as well as stimulated by carnitine (acting like a drug) that they cannot survive
without continuing to eat these addictive substances. Dr. Klaper has a video about this, as below. What ends up happening to many humans
is they conclude "The vegan diet failed them". No, in most cases, they made bad choices and did not do their homework to begin with. Cheers,.
 

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I'm often an outlier on this position, but I truly wish the word vegan would be maintained as an ethical choice to exclude animal products, with the "diet' part playing the same role as saying omnivore--as in not what is eaten, but what is not eaten.
If this definition is maintained there can't be the controversy of health, because health isn't the focus-ethics is. Excluding animal products doesn't cause any deficiencies on it's own

I'm also sick of those who feel the need to document their vegan 'trials', which I believe is a big factor in much of this nonsense
 
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Jamie in Chile

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Big tech companies need to get better at stopping the abuse. It ought to be possible or easier to delete offensive comments or block all comments. This is what's needed. People also need to try and develop a thicker skin, although clearly that isn't realistic for some people in difficult situations.

I did notice some years ago when I was first looking into veganism and learning about it (2015-2018) that ex vegans got more hate than people that never tried veganism at all, which always seemed illogical.

However, it didn´t take me long to realise that the vegan on ex-vegan attacks and even vegan on vegan attacks and rebuttals, particularly on youtube, were just something I wasn´t interested in. I wonder if there is actually getting to be less of this sort of thing nowadays, or maybe it´s still going on a lot and I don´t hear about it.

I do get the feeling, at least on this forum, that there is some moderation going on, although it just be my perception, or the influence of some posters. But the type of person that would want to kick you out of the vegan club for eating a cookie doesn´t seem to be on this forum very much, maybe years ago.

I think this Natalie Portman story illustrates why you should be able to call yourself a vegan and eat any cookie when you out at the mall. Otherwise you lose vegans altogether. Once they´ve decided they are now vegetarian, they may decide to start eating eggs for breakfast.
 

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I think Vegan Rachel is probably right, I think most of the ex-vegans don´t care about the ethics enough. If they did, at least those middle class and in a western country, they would go and see a nutritionist and get blood tests and report all these reports in their "I am no longer vegan" video/blog/social media post. But you rarely see this. Most of them don´t even state. "I did take a B12 supplement, and my sources of calcium and iodine were as follows...." etc.

I do think there may be a gap in our knowledge. It does seem that some people really do perk up when they eat meat, I´m not convinced that is all psychological. I think there is a minority of people were simply missing a nutrient - a vitamin, a mineral - and even after extensive research just couldn´t figure it out.
 
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Lou

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Big tech companies need to get better at stopping the abuse. It ought to be possible or easier to delete offensive comments or block all comments.
I'm not with you on blaming the Metaverse (meat - averse?)
But agree with everything else.

I was once "not vegan enough" by a guy here. I think it was because I bought a Power berries at TJs, ate it, liked it and only then realized it wasn't vegan. but then I committed the crime by finishing the bag.

I was pretty new to the forum back then and actually made a quiet exit. but some other forum members came to my defense and asked me to keep posting.

that guy eventually crossed some kind of line and got banned.
 
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Lou

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I think Vegan Rachel is probably right, I think most of the ex-vegans don´t care about the ethics enough.
one of the common themes you see here is "are you vegan or just plant based". and I think most "vegans' think it comes down to ethics.

Maybe not a common theme but one that I think is underlying is being a vegan advocate. ONE of the reasons I try to eat healthy and care about nutrients is that I want to be a shining example. You can't really be a shining example if you are un-healthy.
 
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Jamie in Chile

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I was once "not vegan enough" by a guy here. I think it was because I bought a Power berries at TJs, ate it, liked it and only then realized it wasn't vegan. but then I committed the crime by finishing the bag.

I was pretty new to the forum back then and actually made a quiet exit. but some other forum members came to my defense and asked me to keep posting.

that guy eventually crossed some kind of line and got banned.
This is a perfect example of why the definition of veganism is interpreted in too strict a fashion. Good posters like you get scared off, and it gives power to people with issues. However, we are going off topic. I´ll start a new thread.
EDIT: New thread: Let´s Make Veganism Less Strict
 
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I think Vegan Rachel is probably right, I think most of the ex-vegans don´t care about the ethics enough. If they did, at least those middle class and in a western country, they would go and see a nutritionist and get blood tests and report all these reports in their "I am no longer vegan" video/blog/social media post. But you rarely see this. Most of them don´t even state. "I did take a B12 supplement, and my sources of calcium and iodine were as follows...." etc.

I do think there may be a gap in our knowledge. It does seem that some people really do perk up when they eat meat, I´m not convinced that is all psychological. I think there is a minority of people were simply missing a nutrient - a vitamin, a mineral - and even after extensive research just couldn´t figure it out.
Hi there. PLEASE do watch the video's by Dr. Klaper about ex-vegans and failed vegans. They are very honest. Some omnivores are
believed to be so slathered with animal carnitine, saturated fats, etcetera that they cannot properly absorb some plant nutrients.
So, they do perk up when fed the over-stimulating dead animals muscles. That is conditioning, not because of humans being true omnivores. Cheers.
 
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Jamie in Chile

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I watch this video, which is possibly one of the ones you mean.

It seems that the theory here is that people who eat fast food including meat get lots of creatine and carnitine and so the body stops producing its own and then they go vegan and have less or no creatine and carnitine and then they feel bad because their creatine and carnitine stores have been depleted and the body has stopped produced its own. Then when they eat meat and feel better it is because they are eating creatine and carnitine.

It's worth highlighting this is a theory, not backed up by any science that I can see. (I imagine it would be difficult or expensive to run a study on this.)

 

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@Jamie in Chile Interesting. I was under the impression that humans didn't need those two substances (while cats do- which is one reason someone must be careful to supplement if they try to maintain a cat on a vegan diet, and many advise against attempting that at all). I hadn't heard anything about losing the ability to make them, but maybe this could happen.

If this is what's going on, does anyone have any idea if someone can regain their ability to synthesize carnitine, etc, or how long it takes? If people differ in this (biochemical individuality), that might explain why some of us take to veg*nism overnight, while others say they have a hard time transitioning.
 
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