A message from the opposition.

Lou

Forum Legend
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Reaction score
15,342
Age
68
Location
San Mateo, Ca
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I haven't finished reading this article. I had take a break because I got worried about my BP.


I'm tempted to try to make a list of all the things that are wrong with this but its hard to even figure out where to start. Ok, how about a hunting and fishing banner at the top.

We have probably all experienced some anti vegan hate. And I know I've discussed it and its causes in other thread.
This guy takes it to new levels. I'm thinking unabashedly anti-vegan might be an apt description. Speciesist and Carnist don't seem to quite cover it.

BTW, I have Google's NewFeeder and it looks for vegan news. Being that this article used the word vegan like a hundred time is appeared in my NewsFeed.

I don't think we vegans* have put any farmers out of business. I really do feel bad when small dairy farmers go out of business. However, I'm looking forward to the day this guy loses his stupid farm to the bank. I just hope it gets bought by a guy who grows oats for oat milk.

*or is it "us vegans". I already forgot.
 
I haven't finished reading this article. I had take a break because I got worried about my BP.


I'm tempted to try to make a list of all the things that are wrong with this but its hard to even figure out where to start. Ok, how about a hunting and fishing banner at the top.

We have probably all experienced some anti vegan hate. And I know I've discussed it and its causes in other thread.
This guy takes it to new levels. I'm thinking unabashedly anti-vegan might be an apt description. Speciesist and Carnist don't seem to quite cover it.

BTW, I have Google's NewFeeder and it looks for vegan news. Being that this article used the word vegan like a hundred time is appeared in my NewsFeed.

I don't think we vegans* have put any farmers out of business. I really do feel bad when small dairy farmers go out of business. However, I'm looking forward to the day this guy loses his stupid farm to the bank. I just hope it gets bought by a guy who grows oats for oat milk.

*or is it "us vegans". I already forgot.
This is hardly a strong argument against veganism, I've seen the opposition do better before.
 
I haven't finished reading this article. I had take a break because I got worried about my BP.


I'm tempted to try to make a list of all the things that are wrong with this but its hard to even figure out where to start. Ok, how about a hunting and fishing banner at the top.

We have probably all experienced some anti vegan hate. And I know I've discussed it and its causes in other thread.
This guy takes it to new levels. I'm thinking unabashedly anti-vegan might be an apt description. Speciesist and Carnist don't seem to quite cover it.

BTW, I have Google's NewFeeder and it looks for vegan news. Being that this article used the word vegan like a hundred time is appeared in my NewsFeed.

I don't think we vegans* have put any farmers out of business. I really do feel bad when small dairy farmers go out of business. However, I'm looking forward to the day this guy loses his stupid farm to the bank. I just hope it gets bought by a guy who grows oats for oat milk.

*or is it "us vegans". I already forgot.
As far as I'm concerned factory farmers are just like the Nazis, I couldn't care less if we harm their business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vegan Dogs and IC_
I thought it was worth reading. It reminded me why comparisons to rape, slavery and the holocaust are bad outreach tactics. I got a kick out of piano keys being one of the reasons perfect veganism is impossible...like I would die without owning an ivory keyed piano! Also it made me like Oatly more, I'll buy something from them next time I shop.
 
Ok, I have had to stop for a while when I got to the place where he says - how the farmers don’t have the money that the animal rights activists have! What? Excuse me? How big is the animal agriculture lobby in almost Every country?
Yeah, and the bit about how some people don’t want to be called Vegan so they call themselves plant based so as not to be associated with the “militant“Vegan activists!
What does bother me the most though is that if he really did get such hate responses and even death threats from his post.
As true Vegans - anyone responding to posts such as his should take the “Higher” ground and respond thoughtfully and not sink to name calling and threats...
As an elderly - ha ha couldn’t resist - woman I couldn’t be more proud to call myself Vegan! And once the pandemic is under control I will continue to do whatever activism I can...
Will put off reading more of this article till later on so as not to ruin my day...
Thanks for posting this @Lou, it may not be pleasant to see but, it’s important to know what the animal ag farmers are saying. Oh, that reminds me - I think that he said something about Vegans hating farmers - when I think of farmers I think of growing crops not animals- Farmers who grow crops are Wonderful!
 
I live in farm country. This isn't even close to the anti vegan, anti wfpb propaganda that farmers are regularly exposed to. The exposure to these ideas come from everywhere and virtually from any industry that has any connection to commercial farming.

In a non- scientific survey of residents of my county done by my insurance company, one of the higher scoring concerns were about organic farming. Specifically that farm oriented groups need to make sure the public understood that organic farming practices were the cause of the dust bowl.

Some of the other concerns which got about as many votes were things such as grain prices, foreign markets open to American farm products, and legislation to benefit family farms.

I want to add that this is an observation based on my small little corner( 2 county area) of Iowa. My little corner of Iowa, where about 1/3 of the US flags flying on private property have a trump flag flying with it.
 
I live in farm country. This isn't even close to the anti vegan, anti wfpb propaganda that farmers are regularly exposed to. The exposure to these ideas come from everywhere and virtually from any industry that has any connection to commercial farming.

In a non- scientific survey of residents of my county done by my insurance company, one of the higher scoring concerns were about organic farming. Specifically that farm oriented groups need to make sure the public understood that organic farming practices were the cause of the dust bowl.

Some of the other concerns which got about as many votes were things such as grain prices, foreign markets open to American farm products, and legislation to benefit family farms.

I want to add that this is an observation based on my small little corner( 2 county area) of Iowa. My little corner of Iowa, where about 1/3 of the US flags flying on private property have a trump flag flying with it.
I grew up in the SW corner of Minnesota and NW Iowa on a small family farm. (I didn't read the article yet) I just wanted to agree with you and say hi to a fellow Hawkeye!
 
I live in farm country. This isn't even close to the anti vegan, anti wfpb propaganda that farmers are regularly exposed to. The exposure to these ideas come from everywhere and virtually from any industry that has any connection to commercial farming.

In a non- scientific survey of residents of my county done by my insurance company, one of the higher scoring concerns were about organic farming. Specifically that farm oriented groups need to make sure the public understood that organic farming practices were the cause of the dust bowl.

Some of the other concerns which got about as many votes were things such as grain prices, foreign markets open to American farm products, and legislation to benefit family farms.

I want to add that this is an observation based on my small little corner( 2 county area) of Iowa. My little corner of Iowa, where about 1/3 of the US flags flying on private property have a trump flag flying with it.
Organic farming is responsible for the dust bowl? Could you please explain to me why they think that is?
 
So I finished the article. First off I miswrote up above - he wrote that farmers doing their jobs day in and day out
do not have the luxuries or animal-rights activists‘ resources. What luxuries does he think that activists have I wonder? And the resources are mostly the time and energy of activists. As far as I know there is not a Vegan lobby as there is for animal ag.
Mostly what I took away from the article is that animal ag farmers are worried about the affect of Veganism.
 
That article was really weird. The comment that the dairy farmer made was kind of funny. Is she saying that the reason that they remove the calves from their mothers is because cow's milk is unhealthy, and unsafe, for calves???

"Baby calves’ immune systems are very fragile. By feeding them ourselves, we can ensure good quality colostrum, full of antibodies, to strengthen their immune systems and raise happy healthy calves.”
 
Just now listened to one of the videos that was on the ag daily sidebar up on the original post
Wow! It was crazy! It‘s called -
What fuels a Vegan diet
All I can say is that it will make me think twice about buying Vegan margarine!
Although he doesn’t say that the same would be true for Any margarine
 
Just read another one off the sidebar
Farm babe - Sorry there’s no such thing as Vegan
Yep, she points out how many things that we don’t think about come from animals. Lots of the things I knew about some I didn’t. The lists were quite useful actually!
The saddest thing to me though is that she writes like - well since we can’t be Perfect don’t try at all let’s all just keep on killing more and more animals...
 
The saddest thing to me though is that she writes like - well since we can’t be Perfect don’t try at all let’s all just keep on killing more and more animals...

That must be taught in anti-vegan 101. its a common argument. I noticed that in the main article as well.
Like when he says, " An ethical vegan eats no animal products and avoids their use in all facets of their lives (which is almost impossible considering that animal products are used in things such as bandage strips, piano keys, textiles, antifreeze, tires and dog food).

Anyone who knows even the first thing about veganism knows about the "practical and possible" clause. so by definition being a vegan isn't "almost impossible".

Even if it was "almost impossible". Is that a good reason not to do it?
 
What does bother me the most though is that if he really did get such hate responses and even death threats from his post.
My guess is that he got the hate mail in response to earlier posts. and again I'm guessing but I think its entirely plausible that some of his other posts were even worse than this one.

But yes, I agree that we should take the higher road.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brian W and 1956
So I finished the article. First off I miswrote up above - he wrote that farmers doing their jobs day in and day out
do not have the luxuries or animal-rights activists‘ resources. What luxuries does he think that activists have I wonder? And the resources are mostly the time and energy of activists. As far as I know there is not a Vegan lobby as there is for animal ag.
Mostly what I took away from the article is that animal ag farmers are worried about the affect of Veganism.
Big ag interests are not the same as small farmer interests. Cory Booker knows that. I think this guy must know that too.
 
I grew up in the SW corner of Minnesota and NW Iowa on a small family farm. (I didn't read the article yet) I just wanted to agree with you and say hi to a fellow Hawkeye!
Well, HI! Right back at ya, Chryssie.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chryssie
Organic farming is responsible for the dust bowl? Could you please explain to me why they think that is?
I could only guess how that came about. I was quite surprised when I saw it and the amount of support it had, that's what made it so memorable.

The way the survey worked was one had to read through the answers already posted, if yours was already there then you added your vote to it, otherwise your concern was posted as its own category . The topics I mentioned were among the most popular with around 110 votes each. There were 2-3 responses about sustainable agricultural practices or organic farming and those were about 10 votes each.

I can't provide a link to it as it was deactivated a couple of weeks after I received my email invitation to participate.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: 1956
Piano keys are not longer made from animal products:

Traditionally, the white keys were covered with strips of ivory, but since ivory-yielding species are now endangered and protected by treaty, plastic is now universally used.

I think it is OK not to be perfect as a vegan. I occasionally make mistakes. The pastry or cookie that I thought was vegan, and then later found out had a small amount of egg white; well I did the best I could. I'm not going to beat myself up over it.

I think a lot of the "death threats" may be overblown rhetoric. Somebody saying that a farmer should be taken to a slaughterhouse to see if he could be "humanely killed," is not a death threat. It is just asking the farmer to understand the suffering of the animals.
 
The real causes of the dustbowl were a drought combined with mechanized farming which allowed more land to be put under the plow. You could also add the falling price of wheat which made farmers try to grow more of it to make ends meet. I don't think organic farming had anything to do with it.
 
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: 1956 and Brian W