10 things you should know before going veggie

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10 things you should know before going veggie
Are you considering giving up meat and becoming a vegetarian? In honour of National Vegetarian Week, Georgie Kiely fills us in on what you should know before turning to the dark, green and leafy side...

There are as many reasons for going veggie as there are veggie chefs and writers. I've been vegetarian for a long time. So long, that the taste of a turkey twizzler is now a distant memory (thankfully). I've never been a big meat eater and at about 8 years of age, as I gradually went off an increasing number of meat dishes, my family had to widen our vegetarian recipe repertoire.

In many ways, going veggie was the start of my interest in food; where it comes from, how it's cooked, what other cuisines have to offer... The more you explore, the more you discover that there's a whole host of delicious dishes where vegetables are the star. You'll soon find yourself asking, 'Who needs meat?'
 
The article said:
Above all, embrace the egg, the easiest source of protein out there!

Sigh.

I would have thought that most people have heard about why laying eggs is not all fun and games for the chickens involved....

So seeing eggs featured as the most prominent part in the first picture, and fish in the second ... disappoints me a little.
 
@Andy_T Those advices are first steps for vegetarians, not for vegans.

It took me a few years before I left the eggs. (< is this English???)
 
I think you can easily find protein without eggs. Probably not the healthiest choice, with the cholesterol. The fish thing is a bit odd.
 
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From the linked article section 5, "Something Fishy":
Being a pescatarian for a while can also be a great stepping stone to going vegetarian.
It was a stepping stone for me... but in retrospect, I wish I had moved past my pescetarian phase faster.

ETA: I typed several different things trying to edit this, and actually lost track of what I posted originally!!!! Gah...
 
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I do want to point out that this was posted in the vegetarian support forum and is advice for potential vegetarians, which is why there was inclusion of eggs as part of the diet for those transitioning. I know the consumption of eggs and dairy makes a lot of members here uncomfortable, but for omnis giving up meat, a lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet is often the first, easy step. "I can still have my eggs and cheese, yeah?"
 
A number of criticisms of this article, and they are probably all fair. However, it's good to see these issues up for discussion at least in the mainstream at least - so I am torn about whether we should focus first and foremost on praising the mainstream media for debating the issue, rather than nitpicking about a few things. It does seem rather confused however to promote eggs while avoiding gelatin, and it does make me wonder what the reasons are behind this person's vegetarianism.

I am quite new to these issues, but am becoming reasonably well read on it and have given the issues more thought now than I went I first came to veggie views asking questions about the topics last year.

According to all the books and articles I've read, (factory-farmed) eggs are probably as cruel a food as meat because of the sheer number of animals involved and the intensity of the confinement. I'd have (factory farmed) eggs alongside fish and (factory farmed) meat as the worst foods from a point of view of primarily animal rights and suffering, and those are the foods that I decided to avoid absolutely 100% and that I would promote others to do the same. That's where I personally decided to draw the line between what I consider morally indefensible for almost anyone in almost any case and what I consider (below) to come down to a personal choice.

A second category of foods might include seafood, milk, cheese, which I personally avoid most/all of the time, but probably aren't as bad as the first group and I might not feel a need to criticize others too much. Some very high welfare animals from genuinely good family farms (very rare in first world) might fall into this category. By products like gelatin and foods with small amount of animal products as a minor ingredient might fall into this category. Of course this category 1 and 2 is just what I decided from my personal research, so it is a personal thing, others are going to look at it differently.

Being a vegetarian but eating eggs doesn't make a huge amount of sense when you look at it from a viewpoint of reducing animal suffering and enslavement, which is probably the best argument for vegetarianism. It probably makes no more sense in fact that saying you give up all meat, fish and dairy except bacon or a good steak once a week.

If people's reason for eating eggs is protein, I'd argue that that's actually a mistake. Just a balanced vegan diet including legumes probably does give enough protein according to many books, nutritionists, scientific studies, articles I've read. It took me a while to research and realize that this issue is only in dispute because some people are misinformed. Protein should not be ignored on a vegan diet, but it should not considered a major issue.

Other people may be vegetarian for other reasons such as health, religion and so on, in which case to them some of these arguments don't really apply if you don't agree with the animal rights argument.

The eggs industry is condemning an animal to death in the same way as the meat industry, and that purchasing an egg is paying for an animal to have a poor life and then be killed at the moment when it becomes economically convenient to do so. So you are paying for killing, arguably, in the same way. Others may actually avoid meat but eat eggs because they don't like the idea of dining on a dead body. In that context I would argue that your vegetarianism is based on a personal preference rather than the most true, enlightened morality (debatable) since it is based on a personal aversion rather than the most effective way to avoid suffering.

Personally, eggs were the first thing I started to give up, before I really thought about it or looked into it, because it seemed weird to think of it as eating a fetus. It turns out that, as far as I know, that usually isn't the case, and that most eggs are unfertilized and just a by product, so that was perhaps an irrational argument in itself. In theory, eating milk or cheese is just as bad as eggs, but in practice the amount of animal suffering per unit protein is higher in eggs.

The (strict) vegans are the most right, however....

In one book I read, The Animal Activist's Handbook (the authors are from PETA and Vegan Outreach) they say that when someone says "ah, but I could never give up cheese/bacon" their response is. "OK, then don't. Give up everything else but that." That may be a good point since that way you could in theory (debatable) reduce animal cruelty more than if you insisted on promoting a pure vegan diet, because instead of coming across like an extremist, you come across more flexible.

So in that sense, perhaps we should applaud vegetarians that eat eggs for protein. It isn't probably, strictly speaking, the most rational, correct thing to do but realistically not many people become vegans overnight.
 
All good points, but what part of THIS IS THE VEGETARIAN -NOT VEGAN - SUPPORT FORUM doesn't anyone understand? If you want to debate eggs, I recommend starting a thread in the vegan support forum. My feeling is, if a vegetarian or someone thinking about being a vegetarian wants to read about the ethics of eggs, they'll go to the vegan forum.
 
A number of criticisms of this article, and they are probably all fair. However, it's good to see these issues up for discussion at least in the mainstream at least - so I am torn about whether we should focus first and foremost on praising the mainstream media for debating the issue, rather than nitpicking about a few things. It does seem rather confused however to promote eggs while avoiding gelatin, and it does make me wonder what the reasons are behind this person's vegetarianism.

I am quite new to these issues, but am becoming reasonably well read on it and have given the issues more thought now than I went I first came to veggie views asking questions about the topics last year.

According to all the books and articles I've read, (factory-farmed) eggs are probably as cruel a food as meat because of the sheer number of animals involved and the intensity of the confinement. I'd have (factory farmed) eggs alongside fish and (factory farmed) meat as the worst foods from a point of view of primarily animal rights and suffering, and those are the foods that I decided to avoid absolutely 100% and that I would promote others to do the same. That's where I personally decided to draw the line between what I consider morally indefensible for almost anyone in almost any case and what I consider (below) to come down to a personal choice.

A second category of foods might include seafood, milk, cheese, which I personally avoid most/all of the time, but probably aren't as bad as the first group and I might not feel a need to criticize others too much. Some very high welfare animals from genuinely good family farms (very rare in first world) might fall into this category. By products like gelatin and foods with small amount of animal products as a minor ingredient might fall into this category. Of course this category 1 and 2 is just what I decided from my personal research, so it is a personal thing, others are going to look at it differently.

Being a vegetarian but eating eggs doesn't make a huge amount of sense when you look at it from a viewpoint of reducing animal suffering and enslavement, which is probably the best argument for vegetarianism. It probably makes no more sense in fact that saying you give up all meat, fish and dairy except bacon or a good steak once a week.

If people's reason for eating eggs is protein, I'd argue that that's actually a mistake. Just a balanced vegan diet including legumes probably does give enough protein according to many books, nutritionists, scientific studies, articles I've read. It took me a while to research and realize that this issue is only in dispute because some people are misinformed. Protein should not be ignored on a vegan diet, but it should not considered a major issue.

Other people may be vegetarian for other reasons such as health, religion and so on, in which case to them some of these arguments don't really apply if you don't agree with the animal rights argument.

The eggs industry is condemning an animal to death in the same way as the meat industry, and that purchasing an egg is paying for an animal to have a poor life and then be killed at the moment when it becomes economically convenient to do so. So you are paying for killing, arguably, in the same way. Others may actually avoid meat but eat eggs because they don't like the idea of dining on a dead body. In that context I would argue that your vegetarianism is based on a personal preference rather than the most true, enlightened morality (debatable) since it is based on a personal aversion rather than the most effective way to avoid suffering.

Personally, eggs were the first thing I started to give up, before I really thought about it or looked into it, because it seemed weird to think of it as eating a fetus. It turns out that, as far as I know, that usually isn't the case, and that most eggs are unfertilized and just a by product, so that was perhaps an irrational argument in itself. In theory, eating milk or cheese is just as bad as eggs, but in practice the amount of animal suffering per unit protein is higher in eggs.

The (strict) vegans are the most right, however....

In one book I read, The Animal Activist's Handbook (the authors are from PETA and Vegan Outreach) they say that when someone says "ah, but I could never give up cheese/bacon" their response is. "OK, then don't. Give up everything else but that." That may be a good point since that way you could in theory (debatable) reduce animal cruelty more than if you insisted on promoting a pure vegan diet, because instead of coming across like an extremist, you come across more flexible.

So in that sense, perhaps we should applaud vegetarians that eat eggs for protein. It isn't probably, strictly speaking, the most rational, correct thing to do but realistically not many people become vegans overnight.
May I suggest that you delve more deeply into the dairy industry? That is all I will say on the matter, until this is moved to the Compost Heap.
 
Hi Amy, I think this is a grey area, and not clarified within the forum rules. You may see this (sub)-forum as vegetarian meaning as opposed to vegan (is that how it is..I haven't been around here long), but alternatively you can see veganism as a subset of vegetarianism.

Eggs are not necessarily a core part of a vegetarian diet. As far as I understood it, vegetarianism is defined by the fact that it excludes meat, but not by the fact that it includes dairy/eggs. Vegetarians may eat eggs, or they may not. So an attack on eggs is not an attack on vegetarianism in the same way it would be if someone came to this forum with pro-meat arguments, and, as such, is probably not a breaking of the rules. In fact, I identify as vegetarian so if one of the regular vegetarians on here comes and argues with me in favour of eating eggs and debates with me isn't that perhaps a case of two people sharing a vegetarian lifestyle debating how best to do it?

You could argue in fact that a debate on the morality of eggs belongs more in the vegetarian forum than the vegan one, since a true vegan diet absolutely forbids eggs. Therefore, that presumably means that to participate in the vegan forum you should already agree that eggs are bad, and hence a discussion of the morality of eggs would be bad, since pro-egg comments would presumably be off limits or at least somewhat poor etiquette.

I think as it's a grey area, and assuming no guidance given from moderators, we would have to just go with what the majority of people seem to prefer.

By the way, the rules were hard to find. I gave up looking for them on the site after a couple of minutes and did a google search.
 
But in the vegetarian support forum, one must be supportive of vegetarians. And while this is uncomfortable for vegans to think about, some vegetarians do choose to eat eggs. As I suggested before, if you want vegetarians to think about the ethics behind the egg industry and why you don't think vegetarians should support it by eating eggs, perhaps a new thread should be started in the vegan support forum, since it's well established that vegans don't eat eggs.

And again referring to the initial article posted by the OP, it's advice for potential vegetarians, and that's why it doesn't bring up avoiding eggs. A lot of vegetarians DO eat eggs. If they're recently converted from omni, they may be keeping some dietary choices they're familiar with until they learn more about their new diet/lifestyle. And not everyone is comfortable, or even able, to give up eggs when they become vegetarian. This is something they may choose to do later.
 
Hi Amy, I think this is a grey area, and not clarified within the forum rules. You may see this (sub)-forum as vegetarian meaning as opposed to vegan (is that how it is..I haven't been around here long), but alternatively you can see veganism as a subset of vegetarianism.

Eggs are not necessarily a core part of a vegetarian diet. As far as I understood it, vegetarianism is defined by the fact that it excludes meat, but not by the fact that it includes dairy/eggs. Vegetarians may eat eggs, or they may not. So an attack on eggs is not an attack on vegetarianism in the same way it would be if someone came to this forum with pro-meat arguments, and, as such, is probably not a breaking of the rules. In fact, I identify as vegetarian so if one of the regular vegetarians on here comes and argues with me in favour of eating eggs and debates with me isn't that perhaps a case of two people sharing a vegetarian lifestyle debating how best to do it?

You could argue in fact that a debate on the morality of eggs belongs more in the vegetarian forum than the vegan one, since a true vegan diet absolutely forbids eggs. Therefore, that presumably means that to participate in the vegan forum you should already agree that eggs are bad, and hence a discussion of the morality of eggs would be bad, since pro-egg comments would presumably be off limits or at least somewhat poor etiquette.

I think as it's a grey area, and assuming no guidance given from moderators, we would have to just go with what the majority of people seem to prefer.

By the way, the rules were hard to find. I gave up looking for them on the site after a couple of minutes and did a google search.


So that we vegans don't bully the lacto and ovo vegetarians, this vegetarian section is a safe place to discuss recipes with cheese, eggs, etc. There's plenty of other sections to talk them out if it ;)

...edited for: I was talking about the wrong forum, sorry, I blame it on lack of sleep. This site is owned and moderated extremely well, as evidenced by Indian Summer's smooth handling of this thread as usual. :)
 
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I think the article does a decent job of covering a lot of issues that new vegetarians might face and offers some nice tips. I would add that the gut flora changes as more fiber and more fruits and vegetables, beans, and grains are consumed by vegetarians, and that in the beginning digestive issues (ie gas, bloating, diarrhea, cramps) might be an issue for some. So gradually introducing more beans and so on might help.

I personally went from omni to vegan, no vegetarian step, and no problems. However, I had a dairy intolerance for years and was already very familiar with stuff like plant milks and tofu. I had also started gradually shifting from meat to more beans as early as 2007 ( didn't go vegan until 2011) due to cramps and other digestive issues made worse with greasy meats and slow transit time. I vaguely remember having gas and bloating in the beginning when introducing more beans as a staple. I learned quickly to cook them a certain way to avoid this or reduce it. I am also a bit of a foodie who loved the challenge of "alternative" ways of making food, so it was actually heaven on earth when I went vegan and discovered ways to replace eggs. I used to make a lot of gluten free foods for my Mom who eats gluten free. So I was not new to exploring foods like buckwheat groats or coconut milk or white bean dips. Having the attitude of a new adventure and seeing what is possible really makes being vegetarian or vegan so much easier.

As a side note, I always thought the gelatin issue made vegetarianism more complicated than just going vegan. With veganism, you know what is acceptable and what isn't. It would be hard to keep track of what cheeses and other dairy products have gelatin, and where your eggs came from and so on. There are more gray areas.

On the otherhand, I used to be upset with my Mom and sister for not being able to stay with veganism. They both went back to pescetarian and vegetarian respectively. But they try to keep their animal intake as minimal as possible when they can, and are more aware of where their food comes from and the issues. If this means they can sustain a better lifestyle and better choices for a longer period, I am more for that now than them giving up altogether. I think sometimes vegans can be very demanding of others to meet certain standards. It seems you can never be vegan enough. There are so many challenges I have been put through by others even as a vegan. I have been made to question my choice of using almonds, or soy, or wheat and corn, or plant oils, or commercial vegan "meats", or cooked foods, or palm oil, and lately using plastic. I could literally drive myself crazy with perfection, trying to avoid so many things. Or I could draw the line somewhere and be happy with how far I have come so far. Any improvement is better than none at all, and change takes time. Not everyone has a clear and easy path. There are issues like allergies, finances, location, knowledge, time...
 
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MOD POST
Since the discussion in the thread has moved into vegan-vs-vegetarian territory, and it's too late to split the thread in two (sorry!), I've decided to move the thread out of the Vegetarian Forum which is in the support area of the board, and which is covered by a special rule (see rule #5). The General Discussion forum seems like a better place for it now.

By the way, the rules were hard to find. I gave up looking for them on the site after a couple of minutes and did a google search.
Maybe you're right, but there is actually a link at the bottom of every page which can also be found with e.g. Ctrl-F "rules", and for a couple of years now all new members have received a private message with a link to the rules after they sign up. If you or anyone else has ideas for how to improve the visibility of the rules, I will consider it.

Enough about that, let's get back to the topic!
 
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I went veggie in 1993 and I didn't really find it that difficult as the UK was fairly veg-friendly even back then. I relied far too much on cheese which I think made it harder when I went vegan. I still miss certain things like brie.:pout:
 
I guess I understand eggs as more of a want than a need. You really don't need it for protein, but it can be somewhat hard to give up egg based dishes that you love.
 
It looks like my search skills need some work, either that or a bigger monitor or better eyesight to read the small type. Your approach with the rules is probably fine as it is.